Add support for snapshots #5484

JunBys · 2023-07-21T01:22:21Z

I can't seem to find anything about a virtual machine container snapshot manager, which is readily available and available on vmware
This is also very important for my work, which means that I need to create snapshots for different moments of the virtual machine to restore to a certain node location when needed!
You should know what I'm talking about, I didn't explain otherwise

I've also looked through the historical issues and apparently haven't seen anyone making a similar request, would like to ask if this feature is of interest!
I'm new to github so please excuse me if I'm doing something wrong, thanks

ideologysec · 2023-08-16T06:43:53Z

#3893

lnxbil · 2023-11-18T14:39:04Z

I'm also missing this feature, yet I know how to do it manually, if you already have homebrew and qemu installed there:

open the folder in which the virtual machine is (show in finder), right click the VM and show contents, change to Data subfolder. Open that in the Terminal.
folder is usually something like this ~/Library/Containers/com.utmapp.UTM/Data/Documents/<VM Name>.utm/Data
look for *.qcow2 files, that is the virtual disk (there may be more than one depending on your VM setup)
runqemu-img to create and list the snapshot snapshot1

$ qemu-img snapshot F89035CE-DEF9-49D7-97F8-7EC0C2F3F9D9.qcow2 -c snapshot1

$ qemu-img snapshot F89035CE-DEF9-49D7-97F8-7EC0C2F3F9D9.qcow2 -l         
Snapshot list:
ID        TAG               VM SIZE                DATE     VM CLOCK     ICOUNT
1         snapshot1             0 B 2023-11-18 15:31:02 00:00:00.000          0

do what you want to do with the VM
revert back

$ qemu-img snapshot F89035CE-DEF9-49D7-97F8-7EC0C2F3F9D9.qcow2 -a snapshot1

gitsnaf · 2023-11-18T14:57:46Z

My virtual disks have the suffix img.

Creating a snapshot fails with:

WARNING: Image format was not specified for '95E3BDD3-62C7-4CA3-8FE1-BC046EBFC26A.img' and probing guessed raw.
         Automatically detecting the format is dangerous for raw images, write operations on block 0 will be restricted.
         Specify the 'raw' format explicitly to remove the restrictions.
qemu-img: Could not create snapshot 'snapshot1': -45 (Operation not supported)

lnxbil · 2023-11-18T15:18:08Z

The snapshots I described only work with supported image types, e.g. qcow2. You may want to convert them to qcow2 to get all available features.

gitsnaf · 2023-11-18T16:02:15Z

Hm, after converting to qcow2 UTM doesn't find the image anymore. When I import the image file manually, then UTM tries to start the image but the window stays black. Die operating system inside the VM is not booting anymore.

lnxbil · 2023-11-18T16:20:18Z

How did you convert it? What does qemu-img info say about both images?

gitsnaf · 2023-11-18T19:21:06Z

$ qemu-img convert -f raw -O qcow2 95E3BDD3-62C7-4CA3-8FE1-BC046EBFC26A.img 95E3BDD3-62C7-4CA3-8FE1-BC046EBFC26A.qcow2

$ qemu-img info 95E3BDD3-62C7-4CA3-8FE1-BC046EBFC26A.img
image: 95E3BDD3-62C7-4CA3-8FE1-BC046EBFC26A.img
file format: raw
virtual size: 64 GiB (68719476736 bytes)
disk size: 17.9 GiB
Child node '/file':
    filename: 95E3BDD3-62C7-4CA3-8FE1-BC046EBFC26A.img
    protocol type: file
    file length: 64 GiB (68719476736 bytes)
    disk size: 17.9 GiB

$ qemu-img info 95E3BDD3-62C7-4CA3-8FE1-BC046EBFC26A.qcow2
image: 95E3BDD3-62C7-4CA3-8FE1-BC046EBFC26A.qcow2
file format: qcow2
virtual size: 64 GiB (68719476736 bytes)
disk size: 18.1 GiB
cluster_size: 65536
Format specific information:
    compat: 1.1
    compression type: zlib
    lazy refcounts: false
    refcount bits: 16
    corrupt: false
    extended l2: false
Child node '/file':
    filename: 95E3BDD3-62C7-4CA3-8FE1-BC046EBFC26A.qcow2
    protocol type: file
    file length: 18.1 GiB (19473760256 bytes)
    disk size: 18.1 GiB

I also don't know how to create a new UTM VM with qcow2 as storage type.

lnxbil · 2023-11-19T13:51:22Z

Your virtual disk sizes are the same and everything looks like it should work.

I also don't know how to create a new UTM VM with qcow2 as storage type.

I don't know either, my default was qcow2, as I thought it would be and should be with QEMU.

This is my disk-part of the configuration, does it look the same or are there any other values?

	<key>Drive</key>
	<array>
		<dict>
			<key>Identifier</key>
			<string>F89035CE-DEF9-49D7-97F8-7EC0C2F3F9D9</string>
			<key>ImageName</key>
			<string>F89035CE-DEF9-49D7-97F8-7EC0C2F3F9D9.qcow2</string>
			<key>ImageType</key>
			<string>Disk</string>
			<key>Interface</key>
			<string>VirtIO</string>
			<key>InterfaceVersion</key>
			<integer>1</integer>
			<key>ReadOnly</key>
			<false/>
		</dict>
	</array>

gitsnaf · 2023-11-19T16:24:03Z

That is mine:

<key>Drive</key>
	<array>
		<dict>
			<key>Identifier</key>
			<string>363D013C-D19F-44B7-8079-82EA063BB118</string>
			<key>ImageName</key>
			<string>95E3BDD3-62C7-4CA3-8FE1-BC046EBFC26A.qcow2</string>
			<key>ReadOnly</key>
			<false/>
		</dict>
	</array>

Because of the ID difference I created a new clone from a working vm and then without starting UTM I edited the config.plist und changed only the ending from .img to .qcow2 for the ImageName-Value. But it was not working.
Then I added your lines, that means the keys ImageTyp, Disk and VirtIO. But again it did not work.

lnxbil · 2023-11-20T09:30:48Z

I just tried to setup a raw diskimage I just downloaded and it gets automatically converted by the GUI to qcow2 and boots up fine. You said you tried to import the image manually? Please copy the original img image outside, rename it to .raw and import the disk via the GUI (add new disk) and see if it also gets converted to qcow2.

Are you on the newest UTM app version?

gitsnaf · 2023-11-20T19:51:28Z

I did what you said but the file was not converted to to qcow2. UTM just copied the raw-File from the import location to the VM location.

gitsnaf · 2023-11-20T19:59:06Z

https://docs.getutm.app/settings-qemu/drive/drive/ says:

When importing a drive that is non-removable and not a raw image, the selected image will first be converted to the QCOW2 format.

So we cannot expect a conversion to qcow2 when importing a raw-image.

I'm using UTM 4.3.5. I will check for an update.

Update:
I updated to UTM 4.4.4 but nothing changed. No qcow2-conversion when importing from a raw-file.

lnxbil · 2023-11-20T21:05:52Z

I'm also on 4.4.4 on a M2 MBP. I don't know what I should tell you, it does convert it to qcow2. I'm starting with up-to-date FreeBSD raw image:

$ qemu-img info FreeBSD-14.0-RELEASE-amd64.raw
image: FreeBSD-14.0-RELEASE-amd64.raw
file format: raw
virtual size: 6.03 GiB (6476638720 bytes)
disk size: 3.57 GiB
Child node '/file':
    filename: FreeBSD-14.0-RELEASE-amd64.raw
    protocol type: file
    file length: 6.03 GiB (6476638720 bytes)
    disk size: 3.57 GiB

created a new VM, delete its disk, import the raw and I ended up with a qcow2 file:

or as text:

$ tree -C
.
├── Data
│   ├── FreeBSD-14.0-RELEASE-amd64.qcow2
│   └── efi_vars.fd
└── config.plist

2 directories, 3 files


$ qemu-img info Data/FreeBSD-14.0-RELEASE-amd64.qcow2
image: Data/FreeBSD-14.0-RELEASE-amd64.qcow2
file format: qcow2
virtual size: 6.03 GiB (6476638720 bytes)
disk size: 3.27 GiB
cluster_size: 65536
Format specific information:
    compat: 1.1
    compression type: zlib
    lazy refcounts: false
    refcount bits: 16
    corrupt: false
    extended l2: false
Child node '/file':
    filename: Data/FreeBSD-14.0-RELEASE-amd64.qcow2
    protocol type: file
    file length: 3.27 GiB (3506634752 bytes)
    disk size: 3.27 GiB

gitsnaf · 2023-11-20T21:16:42Z

Bingo - macOS seems not to work with qcow2 :(

├── Debian 11 (LDXE).utm
│   ├── Data
│   │   ├── 64C60E7D-25B1-4AF0-AFDF-B12F5688E431.qcow2
│   │   └── efi_vars.fd
│   └── config.plist
├── Public
│   └── README.txt
├── Windows 11 21H2.utm
│   ├── Data
│   │   ├── 2FDC55C0-1D37-4551-9307-E5D451A60848.qcow2
│   │   └── efi_vars.fd
│   └── config.plist
├── macOS Monterey 12.6.1.utm
│   ├── Data
│   │   ├── 66943B94-B4F3-48EB-9125-9C5546353B2C.img
│   │   └── AuxiliaryStorage
│   └── config.plist
└── macOS Ventura 13.6.1.utm
    ├── Data
    │   ├── 95E3BDD3-62C7-4CA3-8FE1-BC046EBFC26A.img
    │   └── AuxiliaryStorage
    ├── config.plist
    └── screenshot.png

ideologysec · 2023-11-20T22:23:25Z

Apple Virtualization doesn't support qcow2 images for macOS

lnxbil · 2023-11-21T08:43:21Z

Apple Virtualization doesn't support qcow2 images for macOS

That sounds reasonable, qcow2 is the default format for QEMU. So, if you need snapshots, maybe take on inside of the VM with APFS?

gitsnaf · 2023-11-21T20:11:32Z

Snapshots with APFS are not sufficient. I want to restore the whole system. So I think I will have to clone the VM every time I need a snapshot. Not perfect, but I can live with it.

eqoram · 2024-02-07T11:34:54Z

This is the one thing that is holding me back of using UTM.

esaruoho · 2024-03-18T21:45:58Z

i'm here because ChatGPT v4 hallucinates that UTM already has a Snapshot creation, restoring and deletion method. It's wild the kind of stuff that these LLMs will hallucinate. I was fully expecting this feature to be here, but instead I gotta keep a master VM image and clone it and run. and then delete and make another clone. hopefully this type of feature will land eventually 👍

lnxbil · 2024-03-19T07:20:03Z

i'm here because ChatGPT v4 hallucinates that UTM already has a Snapshot creation, restoring and deletion method. It's wild the kind of stuff that these LLMs will hallucinate. I was fully expecting this feature to be here, but instead I gotta keep a master VM image and clone it and run. and then delete and make another clone. hopefully this type of feature will land eventually 👍

Without knowing what exactly ChatGPTv4 said/hallucinated, it may be technically correct: you can create snapshots of some virtual disk as shown in this comment.

esaruoho · 2024-03-19T09:22:17Z

Without knowing what exactly ChatGPTv4 said/hallucinated, it may be technically correct: you can create snapshots of some virtual disk as shown in this comment.

hallucination1 (excerpt)

Using Snapshots:
Once macOS Sonoma is installed and you have a clean state, you can use
UTM’s snapshot feature to save this state.
After installing and using an app, you can revert to the snapshot to return
to the clean state without the app installed.

then i asked it a followup question on how exactly to do that and it said

Q: thanks, utm worked like a charm. is there some way for you to explain the snapshot feature

ChatGPT
I'm glad to hear that UTM worked well for you! The snapshot feature in UTM
is a powerful tool that allows you to save the current state of your virtual
machine (VM) at any given point in time. This feature is incredibly useful for
testing software, updates, or configurations, as it enables you to quickly
revert the VM back to a previous state without needing to reinstall the OS
or the applications.

How Snapshots Work
When you take a snapshot, UTM captures the entire state of the VM,
including the contents of its memory, the settings, and the current
state of all the disks attached to the VM. This snapshot can be stored
and later restored, allowing the VM to return exactly to the state it was
in when the snapshot was taken.

Using Snapshots in UTM
To use the snapshot feature in UTM, you can follow these general steps:

Open Your VM in UTM: Start UTM and select the VM you want to work
with from the list of available virtual machines.

Take a Snapshot:
- Ensure your VM is running or paused; you cannot take a snapshot of
a VM that is completely powered off.
- Access the VM's control panel or menu options where you manage
the VM settings and controls.
- Look for an option labeled "Snapshots", "Manage Snapshots", or something
similar. The exact wording might vary depending on the version of
UTM you are using.
- Click to take a new snapshot. You may be prompted to give the snapshot
a name or description, which can be helpful for keeping track of multiple snapshots.

Restoring a Snapshot:
Navigate back to the snapshots section in the UTM interface.
You'll see a list of all snapshots you've taken. Select the
snapshot you want to restore.
Confirm the restoration. The VM will revert to the exact
state it was in when that snapshot was taken. Any changes
made to the VM after the snapshot was taken will be lost.

Things to Keep in Mind
Storage Space: Snapshots can consume a significant amount of
disk space, especially if you take many snapshots or if the VM
has a lot of data. It's a good practice to delete snapshots you no
longer need.
Performance: While a snapshot is active (i.e., you have reverted
to a specific snapshot and are running the VM from there),
performance might be slightly affected depending on your
system's specifications and the amount of changes since the
snapshot was taken.
Snapshot Management: Regularly review your snapshots,
deleting old or unnecessary ones to free up space and keep
your snapshot list manageable.

Snapshots are an essential feature for safely testing software,
updates, or configurations, offering a straightforward way to
revert to a known good state without the hassle of manual
backups or reinstalls.

lnxbil · 2024-03-19T10:21:53Z

hallucination1 (excerpt)

Thank you for reporting back. Yes, this is completely hallucinated, especially the part:

you cannot take a snapshot of a VM that is completely powered off

That is the only way to create consistent snapshots.

callumgare · 2024-03-30T07:15:23Z

I'm not seeing any reference to this project in this issue so linking to it here: https://github.com/Metamogul/UTM-Snapshot-Manager

Seems like @Metamogul has put together a nice little PoC GUI for how UTM could manage snapshots. I'd be great to have something like this integrated into UTM directly :)

cgxxv · 2024-04-10T12:40:39Z

Hi utmapp team. Do we have the snapshot feature right now? I really need it. It's so important for a virtual machine. Even through we have the qemu-img command, but it is not as good as a GUI operation.

athalas · 2024-04-26T09:20:39Z

I'm not seeing any reference to this project in this issue so linking to it here: https://github.com/Metamogul/UTM-Snapshot-Manager

Seems like @Metamogul has put together a nice little PoC GUI for how UTM could manage snapshots. I'd be great to have something like this integrated into UTM directly :)

I think that's a brilliant suggestion, +1 to that!

VShrubowich · 2024-08-09T07:06:39Z

Hi utmapp team. Do we have the snapshot feature right now? I really need it. It's so important for a virtual machine. Even through we have the qemu-img command, but it is not as good as a GUI operation.

This is particularly true for iOS and iPadOS since the qemu-img command is not an option because it's not accessible (at least not on a non-jailbroken device).

IvanExpert · 2024-12-18T12:37:14Z

I found myself here because I, too, needed VM snapshots. Realizing they're not avail, I went back to Parallels Desktop, which pretty recently was much worse than UTM at setting up macOS guests on Apple silicon machines, for another look. I realize it's commercial, but v21 now works quite nicely with macOS guests on Apple silicon, including full snapshot support. MIST is a good tool for getting the ipsw firmware file for the version you want. So, obviously not what everyone here is looking for, but wanted to mention it for those that need snapshots for macOS guests on Apple silicon models and aren't opposed to paying for it and/or using closed source software.

andriysavin · 2024-12-18T13:00:02Z

I found myself here because I, too, needed VM snapshots. Realizing they're not avail, I went back to Parallels Desktop, which pretty recently was much worse than UTM at setting up macOS guests on Apple silicon machines, for another look. I realize it's commercial, but v21 now works quite nicely with macOS guests on Apple silicon, including full snapshot support. MIST is a good tool for getting the ipsw firmware file for the version you want. So, obviously not what everyone here is looking for, but wanted to mention it for those that need snapshots for macOS guests on Apple silicon models and aren't opposed to paying for it and/or using closed source software.

You can also use VMWare Fusion, which is now free for personal use and supports Apple silicon and snapshots.

IvanExpert · 2024-12-18T13:51:58Z

You can also use VMWare Fusion, which is now free for personal use and supports Apple silicon and snapshots.

Thanks! Did not know it had been made free -- that's pretty cool. Just tried it out. Unfortunately, it does not support macOS ARM guests at all, they're explicit about it. When running on Apple silicon, Fusion supports Win and Linux arm64, but not macOS.

andriysavin · 2024-12-18T14:08:04Z

You can also use VMWare Fusion, which is now free for personal use and supports Apple silicon and snapshots.

Thanks! Did not know it had been made free -- that's pretty cool. Just tried it out. Unfortunately, it does not support macOS ARM guests at all, they're explicit about it. When running on Apple silicon, Fusion supports Win and Linux arm64, but not macOS.

If you need macOS as guest you can use VirtualBuddy, which is free and allows saving VM state.

wdormann · 2024-12-18T14:48:03Z

Note that a trivial implementation of snapshots (Or at least the "do something and then revert" aspect of it) can be implemented at the APFS layer.

Specifically, in Finder select the VM, press CMD-D, and then do all your to-be-disposed work on the copy. Then when you're done, delete the copy.

IvanExpert · 2024-12-18T19:04:27Z

Note that a trivial implementation of snapshots (Or at least the "do something and then revert" aspect of it) can be implemented at the APFS layer.

Specifically, in Finder select the VM, press CMD-D, and then do all your to-be-disposed work on the copy. Then when you're done, delete the copy.

Certainly true, and a more space efficient alternative to cloning from the VM, which I assume makes a full copy. I think you only get copy-on-write via Finder copies, not even from Terminal.

wdormann · 2024-12-18T19:10:48Z

cp won't do it by default in a terminal, but if you use the -c option, it will do the same as finder.
e.g. cp -ca <parent> <clone>

pboushy · 2024-12-19T21:12:20Z

This is the one feature that prevents me from moving fully to UTM.
If this feature gets implemented, I'll gladly sponsor the project.

Alkenso · 2024-12-22T05:14:47Z

Snapshots are really the feature we're loving using VMs
And built-in support in UTM is very, very demanded

ideologysec · 2024-12-22T05:17:59Z

If you need macOS as guest you can use VirtualBuddy, which is free and allows saving VM state.

You can save the state in UTM via Apple Virtualization as well, but neither of these are snapshots. Apple has not implemented any kind of snapshot functionality into the Virtualization.framework, so any implementation prior to it being a platform feature would need to be added.

QEMU supports disk snapshots, and it would be great to have UTM hook into the COW features of APFS, but you can get something like it with a combination of "clone" and "run without saving changes" options.

Alkenso · 2024-12-22T05:35:33Z

Apple has not implemented any kind of snapshot functionality into the Virtualization.framework

Interesing how another VM vendors like Parallels implemented snapshots. Probably some sort of dealing with APFS snapshots using external tools?...

naveenrajm7 · 2024-12-22T12:22:11Z

@lnxbil Thanks for suggesting the manual snapshots via qemu-img.

Check out Vagrant UTM Plugin, it uses qemu-img to provide vagrant snapshot feature without depending on UTM.
Although native support would be better, as the qemu-img approach only works if there is one disk image.

e40 · 2024-12-22T15:49:09Z

Apple has not implemented any kind of snapshot functionality into the Virtualization.framework

Interesing how another VM vendors like Parallels implemented snapshots. Probably some sort of dealing with APFS snapshots using external tools?...

I was all set to purchase Parallels recently, but during my 30 day trial on an M1 Mac I had snapshots repeatedly fail. I went through support and they were zero help, just wanted to blame operator error, etc. I had used the same product on an x64 Mac and it worked fine.

andriysavin · 2024-12-22T18:59:34Z

If you need macOS as guest you can use VirtualBuddy, which is free and allows saving VM state.

You can save the state in UTM via Apple Virtualization as well, but neither of these are snapshots. Apple has not implemented any kind of snapshot functionality into the Virtualization.framework, so any implementation prior to it being a platform feature would need to be added.

Hmm, you're probably right, it's just that VirtualBuddy can have multiple saved states do they can be confused with snapshots.

IvanExpert · 2024-12-22T21:43:30Z

I'm not sure what you mean. Parallels supports snapshots. I am actively working with snapshots of macOS VM's on Parallels on an M2 MacBook Pro. I assume they've figured out some way to roll their own independently of what the Virtualization framework provides. One thing they haven't implemented, though, are Linked Clones, which you can do with other platforms where they are using their own hypervisor.

…

On Sun, Dec 22, 2024 at 12:48 PM wdormann ***@***.***> wrote: Apple has not implemented any kind of snapshot functionality into the Virtualization.framework Interesing how another VM vendors like Parallels implemented snapshots. Probably some sort of dealing with APFS snapshots using external tools?... The Parallels capability that's provided by Virtualization.framework (running macOS guest VMs) does indeed not support snapshots. — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#5484 (comment)>, or unsubscribe <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AANN6M7OXIMY7L5FHSK6F6T2G4QRVAVCNFSM6AAAAAA2SFTE66VHI2DSMVQWIX3LMV43OSLTON2WKQ3PNVWWK3TUHMZDKNJYGU4TIMRTGQ> . You are receiving this because you commented.Message ID: ***@***.***>

wdormann · 2024-12-24T03:54:46Z

You are correct.
At some point you could not create snapshots of macOS VMs with Parallels, but at some point this was fixed.

pboushy · 2024-12-26T17:20:07Z

Maybe this issue needs to be separated into multiple issues based on hypervisor and guest OS type.

QEMU

As pointed out in #5484 (comment) there's already a tool to create snapshots of the disk, qemu-img, and the commands are straight forward.
Based on that, it appears that QEMU snapshots would be relatively easy for UTM to add.

Create a snapshot:

qemu-img snapshot F89035CE-DEF9-49D7-97F8-7EC0C2F3F9D9.qcow2 -c $name

List snapshots:

qemu-img snapshot F89035CE-DEF9-49D7-97F8-7EC0C2F3F9D9.qcow2 -l

Restore snapshot:

qemu-img snapshot F89035CE-DEF9-49D7-97F8-7EC0C2F3F9D9.qcow2 -a $name

And someone created a solution to manage snapshots, but it requires users to compile it themselves::
https://github.com/Metamogul/UTM-Snapshot-Manager

Apple Virtualization

It appears that Apple has not provided a mechanism to create snapshots with Apple virtualization, and adding this feature will require significant investigation.

JunBys added the enhancement New feature or request label Jul 21, 2023

osy changed the title ~~Should snapshot manager support be added~~ Add support for snapshots Jul 21, 2023

osy mentioned this issue Jul 21, 2023

snapshots / disposable VMs #2688

Closed

osy mentioned this issue Feb 26, 2024

Implement snapshot #6020

Closed

osy added this to the Future milestone Feb 26, 2024

Add support for snapshots #5484

Add support for snapshots #5484

Comments

JunBys commented Jul 21, 2023

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QEMU

Apple Virtualization

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