Replies: 3 comments 5 replies
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Hi,
Many people use multiplier array parameterised with pilot
points interpolated to the grid using kriging. There are more advance
methods (nonstationary geostatistics with variable anisotropy), but pilot
points are a great starting place.
https://help.pesthomepage.org/concepts.html
https://pubs.usgs.gov/sir/2010/5168/pdf/sir20105168.pdf
<https://pesthomepage.org/pest-book>
There are nice example notebooks and methods for setting up pilot points in
the pyemu repo
https://github.com/pypest/pyemu
"Perfect spheres are pointless."
…On Mon, 13 Oct 2025 at 8:05 PM, David ***@***.***> wrote:
Hi,
I'm not sure if this is the right community for my question as it could
easily fall under any of the other modflow/pest-related discussion pages.
But I´ll give it a go anyway and hope to spark a discussion as well as
hopefully getting some answers.
I have struggled quite a bit with how to design my prior parameter
distributions - in particular for the field of hydraulic conductivity but
also for other parameters such as recharge etc. I have tried to gain
insights in various scientific- and consultancy reports over the years but
have yet to find an approach that aligns with the way I model or at least
think I should.
A typical situation would be this; I have a some study-object which will
impose a stress on the hydrogeological system in my model. This could be a
mine, quarry, excavation pit or well. The model domain is local rather than
regional and can cover some square kilometers.
The prior knowledge of the area typically involves a few 1-5
pumping-tests, a couple of slug-tests (at best), some measurements of
piezometric head, precipitation-data, land cover data, some general
(modeled) fluxes in streams and perhaps some geotechnical borelogs. I
generally also have maps of quarternary geology and some large scale map of
bedrock-types.
In most situations there is a general assumption of a upper and lower
aquifer where the upper aquifer consists of fill-material and or sand that
has been deposited in a post-glacial setting. The lower aquifer is some
till and/or sand beneath clay.
The geological maps are quite detailed even if the accuracy definitely can
be questioned.
Now to the question - how would one best assign the prior distribution of
K? First of all, the "known" values of k are limited to the area where
pumping and/or slug-tests has been conducted and cover a very small
fraction of the domain. The rest has to at least have some resemblance or
relation to whatever geological units are assumed based on the geological
maps - at least that has to be considered somehow? It feels awkward or
unreasonable to simulate a 2 by 4 km large area of clay as a k-value of
1x10^5 m/s which would be a possibility if I design my prior as a uniform
k-value which is allowed to wiggle 2 orders of magnitude up or down for
instance.
So.. at least to me it seems like the geological map has to be baked into
the prior knowledge and the prior k-value as well as the wiggleroom should
be defined for each zone of a geological unit such as clay, peat, till,
etc. It also seems reasonable to simulate the soil as at least two layers
to capture the behavior of upper/lower-aquifers.
On the other hand I have seen a lot of reports where soil is simulated as
one layer even if clay is present, and also where the prior k has been
defined as only one or two zones.
Could any one help me to clear up this confusion?
Sincerely
D
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Keep in mind priors are your “best guess.” In the absence of detailed
spatial data the best prior would be the mean value (expected value). For
many fields, esp HK based on pumping tests, the mean value may not reflect
the “effective value” for the model grid due to scaling effects.
If your model has high HK contrasts you may get model stability issues,
especially with stochastic par adjustments and variable stresses. I usually
smooth my prior fields to deal with that and there is no reason you
couldn’t include that smoothing in your preprocessors. For example, apply a
multiplier for every zone, your smooth the field, then apply the pilot
point multiplies.
You can zone your pilot point parameter multipliers and assign different
par bounds to reflect differences in uncertainty.
You can dig into spatially variable (non-stationary) anisotropic variograms
(SVA tools in pyemu and Doherty’s utilities) or transitional probabilities
(TPROGS) if you feel the need for “more realistic looking” fields, but
those methods take a bit more effort.
Priors are important, but I wouldn’t get too hung up on them due to scaling
issues, etc. Just make sure they are “wide enough” or maybe a little wider.
“Today’s posterior is tomorrow’s prior.” -Lindley
"Perfect spheres are pointless."
…On Wed, 15 Oct 2025 at 12:57 AM, David ***@***.***> wrote:
Thanks, I am familiar with and use pilot points for the most part already.
Maybe I'm a bit held back by limitations in GUIs that in reality with pest
or pyemu dont exist.
For instance, I have a general idea that the starting point prior any
calibration should be a model grid and a HK-property field which at least
to some degree reflects the soft knowledge about the study area. In that
sense it should impose values reasonable for clay, where there is clay in a
geological map, values reasonanble for sand where there is supposed to be
sand and rather high conductivity in an esker, if such a formation is
present. I believe it would be strange to assign a uniform HK-field for the
whole domain in contrast to this approach.
Each property zone may or may not have equally wide ranges of variation
for HK but they should be spatially dependent of each other. I dont want
sharp differences in HK from one cell to the next (in general).
The way I have applied these zones previously has forced me to assign a
different parameter for each HK-property zone. Be that soil type or any
other categorization. The reason is to be able to impose different bounds.
Maybe I have reason to think that the variation in an esker material is
less than that of till and as such, the multipliers upper and lower bounds
should be 100 and 0.001 for till and 7 and 0.3 for the esker. In the GUI I
could not define these conditions in one parameter.
So, I suppose what I'm getting at is still what would be a reasonable
workflow in the PEST-world to assign a meaningful and reasonable prior
HK-field that is then adjusted by PEST with pilot points.
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In my models, when history matching to observational data results in
unreasonable parameter values (at or near bounds) it is usually due to
model “structural” errors leading to parameter compensation. For example,
if recharge estimates are too high pest may need to increase K to match
head targets.
In a recent paper we were really struggling to fit estimate of groundwater
age until we included fields generated using SVA which better represented
the connectivity of high K pathways. Interestingly, the posterior values of
porosity were over an order of magnitude lower than most literature values
of “gravel” but in line with lesser-known observations of similar “braided
river gravels” in Aotearoa/New Zealand.
Is it possible your recharge or boundary conditions are too high (as they
often are), causing K to compensate? Is pest reducing recharge and:or
boundary inflows in addition to increasing K? Is there any chance the clays
have high K zones (channels, cracks, burrows, etc)?
I agree with Chris, it is important to focus on the prediction/purpose of
the model and use observations that are well aligned with those predictions.
"Perfect spheres are pointless."
…On Thu, 16 Oct 2025 at 12:52 AM, David ***@***.***> wrote:
Yes, that is reasonable. And perhaps very valid for this example. I'm
regularly simulating impact from large and far stretching structures such
as tunnels and roads. If i just focus on predicting drawdown responses
there are many different parameter fields that can match my data without
them necessarily being anywhere close to reality.
Isn't there a non-negligible risk of misrepresenting key aspects of the
hydrogeological system if I let the calibration deviate to far from my soft
knowledge? There are lots of interdependent processes at play here and just
fitting data blindly may change the system behavior drastically, will it
not?
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Hi,
I'm not sure if this is the right community for my question as it could easily fall under any of the other modflow/pest-related discussion pages. But I´ll give it a go anyway and hope to spark a discussion as well as hopefully getting some answers.
I have struggled quite a bit with how to design my prior parameter distributions - in particular for the field of hydraulic conductivity but also for other parameters such as recharge etc. I have tried to gain insights in various scientific- and consultancy reports over the years but have yet to find an approach that aligns with the way I model or at least think I should.
A typical situation would be this; I have a some study-object which will impose a stress on the hydrogeological system in my model. This could be a mine, quarry, excavation pit or well. The model domain is local rather than regional and can cover some square kilometers.
The prior knowledge of the area typically involves a few 1-5 pumping-tests, a couple of slug-tests (at best), some measurements of piezometric head, precipitation-data, land cover data, some general (modeled) fluxes in streams and perhaps some geotechnical borelogs. I generally also have maps of quarternary geology and some large scale map of bedrock-types.
In most situations there is a general assumption of a upper and lower aquifer where the upper aquifer consists of fill-material and or sand that has been deposited in a post-glacial setting. The lower aquifer is some till and/or sand beneath clay.
The geological maps are quite detailed even if the accuracy definitely can be questioned.
Now to the question - how would one best assign the prior distribution of K? First of all, the "known" values of k are limited to the area where pumping and/or slug-tests has been conducted and cover a very small fraction of the domain. The rest has to at least have some resemblance or relation to whatever geological units are assumed based on the geological maps - at least that has to be considered somehow? It feels awkward or unreasonable to simulate a 2 by 4 km large area of clay as a k-value of 1x10^5 m/s which would be a possibility if I design my prior as a uniform k-value which is allowed to wiggle 2 orders of magnitude up or down for instance.
So.. at least to me it seems like the geological map has to be baked into the prior knowledge and the prior k-value as well as the wiggleroom should be defined for each zone of a geological unit such as clay, peat, till, etc. It also seems reasonable to simulate the soil as at least two layers to capture the behavior of upper/lower-aquifers.
On the other hand I have seen a lot of reports where soil is simulated as one layer even if clay is present, and also where the prior k has been defined as only one or two zones.
Could any one help me to clear up this confusion?
Sincerely
D
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