[Discussion] Filecoin Network v15 Upgrade Scope and Timeline #85
Replies: 16 comments 33 replies
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jfyi i retitled the discussion to |
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🚁🚁🚁🚁 Snapocalypse Now 🚁🚁🚁🚁 |
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@TippyFlitsUK although this was not the chosen name- due mostly to its length and niche cultural relevance- I want to let you know that it is my favorite by far :,) |
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Base on the proposed timeline, i don't think we should consider FIPs that are are not even complete as Also, seems like none of the FIP is That being said, after taking a look at all the FIPs linked and proposed timeline + winter holiday coming, Id suggests we focus on reviewing snap deals, removing data cap from verified clients, and adding a beneficiary account for SP. The reason is these are the three FIPs that I'd say close to be I personally think the following two FIPs must be considered for nvwk v15:
Happy to hear what other implementer thinks, after the scope is defined, I will be able to provide more meaningful feedback on the network upgrade timeline. (for now, I can only say it's feasible for the lotus team to complete snapdeals before the proposed timeline) |
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I don't think the current tentative timeline works. Can we adjust timeline to have Calibration net sync earlier (early January) and then do the network upgrade right after Chinese new year (2nd week of February)? I think cutting down the nice-to-have FIPs so that we can land the really important parts that @jennijuju highlights above ASAP is very important - otherwise I think there is a risk that this entire upgrade gets clobbered by the WIP FVM efforts that are planned to land in ~March and will shift the whole actors model for all Filecoin implementations. |
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Lotus team will have to sync on this tomorrow before we can commit to it. |
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I concur this timeline seems really slow, and would adjust toward landing fewer of the really high impact things in order to bring it forward. I don't have any WIP for v15 but expect to have lots for v16, and the prospect of not being able to bring any of that in until, say, 3+ months after March 2022 is shocking. |
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Smaller suggestion: I find the phrasing "All implementations synced to mainnet" confusing. We have to pick a precise moment in time when the network upgrades, so I'd rather talk about "upgrade date". |
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Also wanna flag,
I think this is heavily timeline-dependent. For example, if ntwk v15 ended up happening in mid/late March, FVM may then fit in the v15 timeline and may be considered for the v15 scope instead of waiting for v16. |
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cc @raulk for confirming. |
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Raul and I briefly connected on this this morning and the concern was updating the network with both FVM changes and Snap Deals simultaneously. I agree there is a timeline constraint, but it seems to be driven more by network security/resiliency concerns than the FVM development schedule. Relatedly, we ought to be careful when scoping what FIPs we do and do not have capacity to incorporate. If we say that we do not have capacity for anything other than snap deals and the datacap removal FIP (both of which I agree are priorities), remove other FIPs from consideration for v15, and then suddenly incorporate FVM FIPs at the last minute, it may appear that we're favoring certain contributions over others. I am not saying that this is my perspective, but am rather flagging FIP incorporation as a legitimacy issue for our governance structure. Prioritizing more impactful and significant network enhancements over smaller ones is certainly necessary, but I also think it's important that any standard we use for decision-making now is adhered to in the coming weeks. |
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totally agree. (Def hope that ntwk v15 to happen earlier so highly unlikely fvm will be considered. The only chance that fvm to be in v15 is the timeline slips lot ate March - then lotus team will have capacity to implement more other fips as well. However, most of the FIPs in the list is also not actionable rn as they are not scoped out yet(without clear / consensus of motivation, proposed solution, security analysis and so on. |
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How about
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@Fatman13 I heard that someone (maybe @jennijuju??) already connected with a lawyer to ask whether or not we could call it 'Rice Krispies', so I assume 'Snapple' is similarly acceptable?? Also, as the person who will have to write out this name in every Slack post, Github discussion post, Filecoin newsletter, and blog posts, I'm partial to something as short and SNAPPY as Snapple :) |
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Hahahah nooooo it may raise trademark issues 🙅🏻♀️ |
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@ZenGround0 also flagged that we should include https://github.com/filecoin-project/FIPs/pull/188in ntwk v15. code implementation is done filecoin-project/specs-actors#1496, however, FIP is blocked by getting FIP editors to assign FIP numbers and merge since Sep 30. |
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Thanks for everyone's feedback and buy-in! After reviewing your comments on this thread, in Slack, and via direct conversation, I want to propose a few updates for consideration: Updated Tentative Timeline:
These dates should better take into account implementation team work capacities and planned OOO holiday time (as currently communicated), as well as existing timeline dependencies and needs Update to Anticipated FIPsThe above FIPs represent those with the highest amount of completeness, and whose on-chain incorporation is compatible with team work capacities. Given winter holidays, the number of FIPs that can possibly be implemented during v15 will be limited. Although the above list remains tentative, any FIP author who would like to include their FIP in the v15 upgrade will need to be complete a full technical spec, with only minimal outstanding edits or changes, by mid-January. They will also need all implementation teams to agree that the FIP is 1) an immediate priority, and 2) possible to incorporate, per current work demands. Nevertheless, there will likely be a short (~6-8 week window) between upgrades in 2022 Q1 and Q2, providing several opportunities in the coming months for community FIPs to be incorporated on-chain. Upgrade Name:
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Because there was a synchronization problem in the last upgrade of venus, we recently tried to add some detection tools to ensure the stability of the chain service and API access consistency, so we expect this part of the function to play a role in the v15 cali network upgrade. @jennijuju |
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@jennijuju of course. As discussed, it may make sense for us to target an early calibnet date so that Lotus can manage its responsibilities as the reference implementation and accommodate other implementations to sync at a later date. In the future it would be preferable to choose a date that enables all implementations to sync at the same time, but that may not be possible given various constraints on this upgrade :) In your personal opinion, is this acceptable practice? If so, and there is no pressure for Venus to sync with Lotus on January 11*, we may be close to considering this timeline final. *Notably, the Venus team should still attempt to join calibnet on or near this date, as a best practice. |
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We (venus) should be able to upgrade the cali network at the same time as lotus. |
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Hello good people, sorry for being a bit late to the party, I was spending some time organizing the trusted setup efforts that are also needed for this upgrade.
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Is this the final call? |
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I like OHSNAP🙊 |
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Yes! The earlier date makes it possible to accommodate other large
enhancements (like the Filecoin Virtual Machine) that will be scheduled
after the v15 network upgrade. There are also several FIPs that are ready
for community feedback and final acceptance, and it was the opinion of the
various implementation teams and various Filecoin protocol engineers that a
February update was preferred over a March update.
…On Mon, Dec 20, 2021 at 6:09 PM Yu ***@***.***> wrote:
Are there any reason we moved the tentative date to an earlier date?
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Oops! Looks like the comment I was originally replying to was deleted by the author! Leaving the response, which addresses why the date was moved up. |
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Sorry my bad. |
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In the CN SPWG meeting held just now, SPs expressed their concerns that they may not have ample time to test v15 in calibration with staff having leaves around spring festival (some may take leave before and other may take leave after spring festival). General consensus within the group is that hopefully calibration upgrade could be set one week earlier and mainnet launch could be set one week later than current proposed timeline. |
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Thanks @Fatman13 for sharing! Unfortunately since most of the lotus team will be away in the next two weeks for a well deserved winter break - we won’t be able to complete the actor + lotus side of development if the calib’s upgrade is in the first week in Jan I personally have no strong opinion on delaying the mainnet upgrade by one week tho. |
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Same for Venus. It's very limited time from now to go for the calibration test, the team needs to implement the new features and do internal test, while working on the chain sync optimization which is in progress. Let's stick the original plan for the cali-test. And delaying the mainnet upgrade will leave more time for storage providers to catch up, especially during the Chinese new year holiday/vacation. I would support it. |
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Hello all, and Happy New Year to those who celebrated! Appreciate everyone for adding their updates and preferences, even while many of us (including myself) were out of office. It appears that we've moved towards consensus on the following dates: - Calibnet sync: Tuesday, January 11 These dates now reflect 1) a mutually achievable calibnet upgrade for at least Venus and Lotus, as well as 2) ample time for the Venus team and others who may be out for Lunar New Year to sync on mainnet. We need to confirm these dates ASAP, so please let me know if these do not reflect your team's current capacity (@jennijuju @BlocksOnAChain @steven004). I'll also follow up with the Fuhon and Forest teams via Slack. In order to accomodate the large number of FIPs that we expect in the coming months, let's also be proactive in scheduling the v16 network upgrade. I will add this as a topic for Core Devs Meeting 34. |
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Lotus and actor release candidates might be ready at the earliest on Jan 6th, thus I propose to postpone the calibnet upgrade to Jan 13rd to give the community more time to prepare for the upgrade. |
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Aside from the upgrade dates - IMHO more importantly is we should start to move FIPs along, to make sure they are at least in the last call before the calib upgrade. |
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@jennijuju if that is reasonable for Lotus as well, I can't see why anyone would object to an additional few days. And yes, FIP organization is the next step once dates are confirmed. FIPs can certainly be in last call by then, they just will not be in accepted status. |
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Proposed as final dates: Calibnet Upgrade - Thursday, January 13 |
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lgtm |
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lgtm 2. |
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wagmi |
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look forward to it coming |
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Final v15 Network Upgrade DetailsDates
Nickname
Anticipated FIPs The purpose of this post is to confirm final timeline details. All implementation teams have now had several weeks to weigh in, provide feedback, and state preferences- if you have any outstanding concerns with the above information, please be in touch ASAP. Otherwise, I will begin to update all network announcement channels, etc., with upgrade details within the next 24 hours. By the end of the week (Friday, January 7), all FIP numbers will be assigned and confirmed and anticipated FIPs will be moved to Last Call status. Implementation teams should continue to prepare the three anticipated FIPs* listed here for inclusion in their calibration network upgrades. *These FIPs were selected for inclusion in the v15 network upgrade at Core Devs #33. FIPs were selected according to priority, completeness of proposal, and implementation team work capacities. |
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Please hold the announcement - there will |
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OhSnap Notice for implementersImportant! New guidance on Filecoin network v15 OhSnap👏 upgrade! A few additional testnet upgrade requirements were discovered by the lotus team earlier this week, to ensure that all implementations and network participants can be fully prepared for incorporating FIP-0019 Snap Deals into the Filecoin Mainnet. The critical ones that impact the previously proposed timeline is that:
Given the first point above, it means that we will need to delay the calibnet upgrade until early February. We will instead make available the butterfly-'SnapNet', for all network participants, including core implementations, SPs, tool builders like Sentinel and so on, to test out the new code and try the new features in this network, and prepare in advance for both the calibnet and mainnet upgrades. New important dates are as follows:
It is our hope that early testing on the Butterfly-SnapNet will allow teams to manage their work capacities, planned holidays, and other contingencies without too much burden. Apologies for the complexity, and thanks so much for being flexible and collaborative as we prepare for v15! Notes:
If you have any questions or concerns, please reach out to @kaitlin-beegle! And @kaitlin-beegle, thank you for your guidance and cross team coordinations for this network upgrade! |
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Will we have a slack channel for snapnet? |
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Please post the question in the community channels and forums. |
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The purpose of this conversation thread is to provide an asynchronous space for implementation team leads to review current FIPs, share ongoing dev priorities and dependencies, flag risks, and otherwise help determine an appropriate timeline for the next Filecoin network upgrade.
Note: We will take more feedback on timeline from the community later on.
This conversation began on Core Devs call 33 and will be revisited (based on input gathered here) during Core Devs call 34. See HERE for meeting notes and recordings, as well as the Core Devs meeting schedule.
Current Tentative Timeline
These tentative dates take into consideration ongoing implementation dev work, capacity demands for FIP incorporation, and work slow-downs during Christmas/winter holiday and Chinese New Year.
Anticipated FIPs
Importantly, this is a tentative list based on FIP drafts which currently 1) exist in the Issues log, 2) continue to record ongoing work, and/or 3) which already have already pushed a FIP draft to the repo.
Additional FIPs could yet be proposed, currently listed FIPs may not be ready or may not successfully complete 'Last Call' status prior to network incorporation, etc. It is recommended that each implementation team review current FIP drafts and roughly timeline each FIP enhancement, the number of labor hours necessary to incorporate the FIP on-chain, and other dependencies or outstanding questions that you have about the total work required.
Lastly, please note that we do not anticipate including any FVM -related FIPs in the v15 network upgrade. After touching base with @raulk, he indicated his team's preference to land any FVM FIPs in the v16 network upgrade.
Upgrade Nickname...what should we call it??
Ideas include: OhSnap, Snapgrade, GingerSnap, Snape, Rice Krispies, Snappy, Snapper
Feel free to propose your own, or indicate your preference!
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