From e277c8f646222497710ba5e8ea52122bf05edece Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: William Cohen <wcohen@cs.cmu.edu>
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2015 15:54:20 -0500
Subject: [PATCH] fixed a bug in acceptReduceInputs causing failures on joins

---
 TODO.txt                       |   4 +-
 gpextras.py                    |   1 +
 mrs_gp.py                      | 115 ++--
 mrs_test/Makefile              |   2 +-
 mrs_test/caterr.py             |   2 +-
 mrs_test/corpus.txt            | 964 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 mrs_test/id-parks.txt          | 654 ++++++++++++++++++++++
 mrs_test/mrs-phirl-naive.py    |  72 +++
 mrs_test/mrs-wordcount.py      |  20 +
 mrs_test/setup-mrs-direct.bash |   9 +
 mrs_test/setup-mrs-server.bash |   7 +
 mrs_test/test/abc.txt          |  20 +
 tutorial/Makefile              |   2 +-
 13 files changed, 1815 insertions(+), 57 deletions(-)
 create mode 100644 mrs_test/corpus.txt
 create mode 100644 mrs_test/id-parks.txt
 create mode 100644 mrs_test/mrs-phirl-naive.py
 create mode 100644 mrs_test/mrs-wordcount.py
 create mode 100644 mrs_test/setup-mrs-direct.bash
 create mode 100644 mrs_test/setup-mrs-server.bash
 create mode 100644 mrs_test/test/abc.txt

diff --git a/TODO.txt b/TODO.txt
index 57ca4d7..9d83ef3 100644
--- a/TODO.txt
+++ b/TODO.txt
@@ -14,7 +14,9 @@ TODO for mrs_gp.py:
  - check if input file is a directory or not, and write to a file, not directory, if --numReduceTasks = 1,
    so it can be used with regular gp - done
 
- - test with gpig, test on processes with errors, ....
+ - test with gpig - done
+ - fix - gpig prefixes dirs in gpfs with / because it likes viewdir/foo.gp
+ - test on processes with errors, ....
  - os.times() - can this show children's time/CPU pct so I can see actual load?
  - server timeout, for security, in case I leave it running...?
  - add an 'abort task' method for server...? or maybe kill client thread?
diff --git a/gpextras.py b/gpextras.py
index 7fd72be..a60639c 100644
--- a/gpextras.py
+++ b/gpextras.py
@@ -100,6 +100,7 @@ def distributeCommands(self,task,gp,maybeRemoteCopy,localCopy):
     def simpleMapCommands(self,task,gp,mapCom,src,dst):
         """A map-only job with zero or one inputs."""
         assert src,'undefined src for this view? you may be using Wrap with target:mrs'
+        # parallelism is ignored for map-only tasks
         return [ "%s --input %s --output %s --mapper '%s'" % (self.mrsCommand,src,dst,mapCom) ]
         
     def simpleMapReduceCommands(self,task,gp,mapCom,reduceCom,src,dst):
diff --git a/mrs_gp.py b/mrs_gp.py
index c6de859..cd71dfa 100644
--- a/mrs_gp.py
+++ b/mrs_gp.py
@@ -15,7 +15,6 @@
 import sys
 import threading
 import time
-import time
 import traceback
 import urllib
 
@@ -111,7 +110,7 @@ def listDirs(self,pretty=False):
         information, sort of like the output of ls -l.
         """
         result = sorted(self.filesIn.keys())
-        if not pretty: 
+        if not pretty:
             return result
         else:
             def fmtdir(d): return '%s%3d  %s' % (GPFileSystem.FILES_MARKER,len(FS.listFiles(d)),d)
@@ -159,7 +158,12 @@ def __str__(self):
 
     def _fixDir(self,d):
         """Strip the prefix gpfs: if it is present."""
-        return d if not GPFileSystem.inGPFS(d) else d[len("gpfs:"):]
+        if d.startswith("gpfs:/"):
+            return d[len("gpfs:/"):]
+        elif d.startswith("gpfs:"):
+            return d[len("gpfs:"):]
+        else:
+            return d
 
     @staticmethod
     def inGPFS(d):
@@ -322,7 +326,8 @@ def performTask(optdict):
 
 def key(line):
     """Extract the key for a line containing a tab-separated key,value pair."""
-    return line[:line.find("\t")]
+    k = line[:line.find("\t")]
+    return k
 
 def mapreduce(indirList,outdir,mapper,reducer,numReduceTasks,pipeThread):
     """Run a generic streaming map-reduce process.  The mapper and reducer
@@ -344,9 +349,9 @@ def mapreduce(indirList,outdir,mapper,reducer,numReduceTasks,pipeThread):
     #names of the reduce tasks
     reduceTags = map(lambda j:'reducer-to-%s-%s' % (outdirs[j],outfiles[j]), range(numReduceTasks))
     reduceQs = map(lambda j:Queue.Queue(), range(numReduceTasks))
-    reducePipes = map(lambda j:makePipe("sort -k1,2 | "+reducer), range(numReduceTasks))
+    reducePipes = map(lambda j:makePipe("LC_COLLATE=C sort -k1,2 | "+reducer), range(numReduceTasks))
     reduceQThreads = map(
-        lambda j:threading.Thread(target=acceptReduceInputs, args=(numMapTasks,reduceQs[j],reducePipes[j])), 
+        lambda j:threading.Thread(target=acceptReduceInputs, args=(reduceTags[j],numMapTasks,reduceQs[j],reducePipes[j])), 
         range(numReduceTasks))
     TASK_STATS.end('_init reducers and queues')
 
@@ -374,13 +379,8 @@ def mapreduce(indirList,outdir,mapper,reducer,numReduceTasks,pipeThread):
     TASK_STATS.start('_run mappers')
     for t in reduceQThreads: t.start()
     for t in mapThreads: t.start()
-    #print 'join mapThreads'
     for t in mapThreads: t.join()
-    #print 'join reduceQThreads'
     for t in reduceQThreads: t.join()
-    #print 'join reduceQs'
-    #for q in reduceQs: q.join()
-    #print 'joined....'
     TASK_STATS.end('_run mappers')
 
     reduceErrCollectors = map(
@@ -607,6 +607,8 @@ def __init__(self,tag,reduceQs):
         self.tag = tag
         self.reduceQs = reduceQs
         self.numReduceTasks = len(reduceQs)
+        #self.logfile = open(self.tag.replace("/","__")+".log", 'w')
+        #self.logfile.write("=== log "+repr(self)+" ===")
         # buffer what goes into the reducer queues, since they seem
         # very slow with lots of little inputs
         self.buffers = map(lambda i:cStringIO.StringIO(), reduceQs)
@@ -634,40 +636,50 @@ def collect(self,str):
                 break
             else:
                 line = lines[lastNewline:nextNewline+1]
+                assert line.strip().find("\n") < 0
                 TASK_STATS.ioSize[self.tag]['stdin'] += len(line)
                 k = key(line)
-                #self.reduceQs[hash(k)%self.numReduceTasks].put(line)
                 self.buffers[hash(k)%self.numReduceTasks].write(line)
+                #self.logfile.write("echo:"+line)
+                #self.logfile.write("key: %s hash: %d queue: %d\n" % (k,hash(k),(hash(k) % self.numReduceTasks)))
                 lastNewline = nextNewline+1
 
     def close(self):
         assert not self.leftover, "collected data wasn't linefeed-terminated"
         global TASK_STATS
+        #self.logfile.write("=== end echo\n")
         for i in range(len(self.reduceQs)):
             # send the buffered-up data for the i-th queue
             bufi =  self.buffers[i].getvalue()
             self.reduceQs[i].put(bufi)
+            #self.logfile.write("sent %d chars to reducer %d %r\n" % (len(bufi),i,self.reduceQs[i]))
             TASK_STATS.ioSize[self.tag]['stdout'] += len(bufi)
             # signal we're done with this queue
             self.reduceQs[i].put(None)
         TASK_STATS.end(self.tag)
+        #self.logfile.close()
 
 ####################
 # used with reducer queues
 
-def acceptReduceInputs(numMapTasks,reduceQ,reducePipe):
+def acceptReduceInputs(tag,numMapTasks,reduceQ,reducePipe):
     """Thread that monitors a queue of items to add to send to a reducer process."""
+    #logfile = open(tag.replace("/","__")+".log",'w')
     numPoison = 0 #number of mappers that have finished writing
+    #logfile.write('= accepting inputs for queue %r from %d shufflers\n' % (reduceQ,numMapTasks))
     while numPoison<numMapTasks:
         task = reduceQ.get()
-        if task:
+        if task==None:
+            #some mapper has indicated that it's finished
+            numPoison += 1
+            #logfile.write('= poison %d/%d shufflers\n' % (numPoison,numMapTasks))
+        else:
             line = task
             reducePipe.stdin.write(line)
+            #logfile.write('= accepted %d chars for queue %r\n' % (len(line),repr(reduceQ)))
             reduceQ.task_done()
-        else:
-            #some mapper has indicated that it's finished
-            numPoison += 1
     #now all mappers are finished so we can exit
+    #logfile.write('= exiting queue %r poisons %d/%d\n' % (reduceQ,numPoison,numMapTasks))
 
 ####################
 # access input/output files for mapreduce
@@ -679,54 +691,51 @@ def setupFiles(indirList,outdir,numReduceTasks):
     is determined by numReduceTasks: if it is -1, then this is
     interpreted as a map-only task, and the number of outputs is the
     same as the number of inputs.
-
-    Generally indirList is a list of directories or GPFS dirs, and the
-    input files are the contents of those directories.  But indirList
-    could also contains only files.  In this case, if there is a
-    single output, it will also be a file.
     """
     #clear space/make directory for output, if necessary
-    if os.path.exists(outdir):  
+    if GPFileSystem.inGPFS(outdir):
+        global FS
+        FS.rmDir(outdir)
+    elif os.path.exists(outdir):  
         logging.warn('removing %s' % (outdir))
-        if os.path.isdir(outdir):
-            shutil.rmtree(outdir)
-        else:
-            os.remove(outdir)
+        if os.path.isdir(outdir): shutil.rmtree(outdir)
+        else: os.remove(outdir)
 
+    #collect input files and directories
     indirs = []
     infiles = []
-    outputToFile = False
-    if all(os.path.isfile(f) for f in indirList): 
-        #ok if all inputs are files...
-        for f in indirList:
-            inhead,intail = os.path.split(f)
+    inputsAreFiles = True
+    for dir in indirList:
+        if GPFileSystem.inGPFS(dir):
+            files = FS.listFiles(dir)
+            infiles.extend(files)
+            indirs.extend([dir] * len(files))
+            inputsAreFiles = False
+        elif os.path.isdir(dir):
+            files = [f for f in os.listdir(dir)]
+            infiles.extend(files)
+            indirs.extend([dir] * len(files))
+            inputsAreFiles = False
+        elif os.path.isfile(dir):
+            inhead,intail = os.path.split(dir)
             indirs.append(inhead)
             infiles.append(intail)
-        #and if they are and there's one non-GPFS output, make that a file too
-        if (numReduceTasks==1 or (numReduceTasks==-1 and len(indirList)==1)) and not GPFileSystem.inGPFS(outdir):
-            #if there's one output, and all inputs are files, then make the output a file also
-            outhead,outtail = os.path.split(outdir)
-            outdirs=[outhead]
-            outfiles=[outtail]
-            outputToFile = True
+        else:
+            assert False,'illegal input location %s' % dir
+
+    numActualReduceTasks = len(infiles) if numReduceTasks<0 else numReduceTasks
+    if inputsAreFiles and numActualReduceTasks==1 and not GPFileSystem.inGPFS(outdir):
+        #make the output a file
+        outhead,outtail = os.path.split(outdir)
+        outdirs=[outhead]
+        outfiles=[outtail]
     else:
-        #collect all the input files
-        for dir in indirList:
-            if GPFileSystem.inGPFS(dir):
-                files = FS.listFiles(dir)
-            elif os.path.isdir(dir):
-                files = [f for f in os.listdir(dir)]
-            else:
-                assert False,'illegal input location %s' % dir
-            infiles.extend(files)
-            indirs.extend([dir] * len(files))
-    if not outputToFile:
-        os.makedirs(outdir)
-        # construct the list of output files
+        if not GPFileSystem.inGPFS(outdir):
+            os.makedirs(outdir)
         if numReduceTasks == -1:
             outfiles = infiles
         else:
-            outfiles = map(lambda j:'part%04d' % j, range(numReduceTasks))
+            outfiles = map(lambda j:'part%04d' % j, range(numActualReduceTasks))
         outdirs = [outdir]*len(outfiles)
     return indirs,infiles,outdirs,outfiles
                       
diff --git a/mrs_test/Makefile b/mrs_test/Makefile
index c9ea1cf..071cb05 100644
--- a/mrs_test/Makefile
+++ b/mrs_test/Makefile
@@ -4,7 +4,7 @@ ASYNC = 0
 
 #
 clean: 
-	rm -rf tmp tmp.txt sharded parallel-events.txt server.log test test2 gpig_views
+	rm -rf tmp tmp.txt sharded parallel-events.txt server.log test2 gpig_views shuffler-*.log reducer-*.log
 
 backup:
 	cp ../mrs_gp_v4.py ../backup/`date "+%H:%M:%S"`-mrs_gp_v4.py
diff --git a/mrs_test/caterr.py b/mrs_test/caterr.py
index 7e23d3c..239f954 100644
--- a/mrs_test/caterr.py
+++ b/mrs_test/caterr.py
@@ -6,4 +6,4 @@
 if __name__ == "__main__":
     for line in sys.stdin:
         print line,
-        logging.warn("echo to stderr:"+line.strip()+"...")
+        logging.warn(line.strip())
diff --git a/mrs_test/corpus.txt b/mrs_test/corpus.txt
new file mode 100644
index 0000000..5c2488a
--- /dev/null
+++ b/mrs_test/corpus.txt
@@ -0,0 +1,964 @@
+ Quite a difference. Think it has anything to do with all that coke?
+ not 'presenile dementia' What is Korsakoff's syndrome?  Download PDF file Korsakoff's syndrome is a brain disorder that is usually associated with heavy drinking over a long period. Although it is not strictly speaking a dementia, people with the condition experience loss of short term memory. This sheet outlines the causes, symptoms and treatment of the syndrome. What causes Korsakoff's syndrome? Korsakoff's syndrome is caused by lack of thiamine (vitamin B1), which affects the brain and nervous system. Excessive use of alcohol is often the cause of thiamine deficiency. This is because:   * Many heavy drinkers have poor eating habits. Their nutrition is inadequate and will not contain essential vitamins.   * Alcohol can inflame the stomach lining and impede the body's ability to absorb the key vitamins it receives. Korsakoff's syndrome may also occur in other conditions where there is severe malnutrition, but this is extremely rare. Korsakoff's is part of the Wernicke-Korsakoff syndrome, which consists of two separate but related stages: Wernicke's encephalopathy and Korsakoff's psychosis. However, not all cases of Korsakoff's are preceded by an episode of Wernicke's. Another term for Korsakoff's is 'alcohol amnestic syndrome', amnestic meaning loss of memory. What is Wernicke's encephalopathy? An encephalopathy is a disorder affecting the brain. Wernicke's encephalopathy usually develops suddenly. There are three main symptoms, though these are not always present, so diagnosis may be difficult. They are:   * Involuntary, jerky eye movements or paralysis of muscles moving the eyes   * Poor balance, staggering gait or inability to walk   * Drowsiness and confusion. Immediate treatment is essential if Wernicke's is suspected. Treatment consists of high doses of thiamine injected into a vein or muscle. If treatment is carried out in time most symptoms should be reversed in a few hours. However, if Wernicke's is left untreated, or is not treated in time, brain damage may result. In some cases the person may die. What is Korsakoff's psychosis? Korsakoff's psychosis may follow if Wernicke's encephalopathy is untreated or is not treated soon enough. It may also develop gradually. Brain damage occurs in important small areas in the mid part of the brain, resulting in severe short term memory loss. Many other abilities may remain intact. Korsakoff's differs from most dementias, in which there is often damage to a large area of the cortex (the outer part of the brain). These dementias affect a much wider range of abilities. What are the symptoms? The main symptom is memory loss, particularly of events arising after the onset of the condition. Sometimes, memories of the more distant past can also be affected. Other symptoms may include:   * Difficulty in acquiring new information or learning new skills.   * Lack of insight into the condition. Even a person with great gaps in their memory may believe their memory is functioning normally.   * Inventing events to fill the gaps in memory. This is more common in the early stages of the illness and is known as 'confabulation'.   * Apathy, in some cases, or talkative and repetitive behaviour in others. People usually retain skills that they acquired before developing the disorder, so they are often able to manage with appropriate support. How is Korsakoff's diagnosed? Korsakoff's syndrome cannot be diagnosed until the person has abstained from alcohol for at least four to five weeks to enable the acute symptoms of alcohol withdrawal to subside. Psychological tests of the person's memory and other abilities will then be carried out to see whether they may have Korsakoff's or some other condition. They will also be observed to see whether their condition progresses without alcohol. If their condition does not change, they may be diagnosed with a form of dementia, such as Alzheimer's disease. It is possible to have both Korskoff's and a dementia. Who is affected? Those affected tend to be men between the ages of 45 and 65 with a long history of alcohol abuse, though it is possible to have Korsakoff's at an older or a younger age. Women can also be affected. They tend to develop Korsakoff's at a slightly younger age than men as they appear to be more vulnerable to the impact of alcohol. It has been suggested that whereas it may take around 20 years for a man to develop Korsakoff's syndrome, it may take about half that time for a woman. It is not yet clear why some heavy drinkers develop Korsakoff's syndrome and others do not, although this may relate to diet. Treatment The progress of Korsakoff's can be completely halted if the person:   * Completely abstains from alcohol   * Adopts a healthy diet with vitamin supplements. While it remains unclear whether additional thiamine helps people improve once the brain damage has already occurred, it may help prevent further damage occurring. Prognosis Any improvement usually occurs within a period of up to two years. It has been estimated that about a quarter of those affected make a very good recovery. About half make a partial recovery and need support to manage their lives. Another quarter make no recovery and may need long term care. Korsakoff's is likely to continue to progress if the person continues to drink heavily and has poor nutrition. Other problems associated with heavy drinking   * Alcohol can have a harmful effect on nerve cells in the brain cortex. A wide range of skills and abilities can be affected by this. This is sometimes known as alcoholic dementia. However, deterioration ceases and there is often some recovery over time if the person abstains from alcohol completely. At present, much research is being carried out into alcoholic dementia and how it may overlap with Korsakoff's psychosis.   * There may be physical disorders associated with drinking, such as damage to the liver or damage to nerves in the legs and arms.   * People with drinking problems are more likely to have experienced head injuries due to accidents, fights or epileptic seizures. http://www.alzheimers.org.uk/Facts_about_dementia/What_is_dementia/info_korsakoffs.htm
+  * Lack of insight into the condition. Even a person with great gaps in their memory may believe their memory is functioning normally.   * Inventing events to fill the gaps in memory. This is more common in the early stages of the illness and is known as 'confabulation'.   * Apathy, in some cases, or talkative and repetitive behaviour in others.
+ Some of the symptoms match what we've seen. But...if he really quit drinking when he said he did, he should have gotten better, not worse. Unless you think he's been secretly drinking all along? I think that neurologist guy is right. The deterioration we've seen over the past ten years looks like Alzheimer's, or something of that ilk.
+ I should know. I've been trying to induce Korsakoff's syndrome in myself so as to obliterate the last 4 years and eliminate George Bush from my consciousness. Realize that Korsakoff's only impairs short term memory -- long term memory is left intact. I figure if I could erase the last 4 years, I'd wake up in the Clinton years, and life would be sweet. But this is tricky business...I have these spells where I am convinced that Nixon is still president, and go raving on about the Cambodian invasion and the Kent State shootings. Someone please help!
+ And with a heckuva lot more information than the video provides. I'm particularly struck by the "involuntary, jerky eye movements." Holy cats! As to the disease not subsiding, the article states very clearly: The progress of Korsakoff's can be completely halted if the person:   * Completely abstains from alcohol   * Adopts a healthy diet with vitamin supplements. While it remains unclear whether additional thiamine helps people improve once the brain damage has already occurred, it may help prevent further damage occurring. Prognosis Any improvement usually occurs within a period of up to two years. It has been estimated that about a quarter of those affected make a very good recovery. About half make a partial recovery and need support to manage their lives. Another quarter make no recovery and may need long term care. Korsakoff's is likely to continue to progress if the person continues to drink heavily and has poor nutrition. Note the "ifs" and "mays". I'm not sure the video is as strong as it could be, though the juxtaposition of Bush now and then is powerful. I have to say I think the case would be better made by physicians.
+ No. Alcoholic damaage is permanent.
+ They will also be observed to see whether their condition progresses without alcohol. If their condition does not change, they may be diagnosed with a form of dementia, such as Alzheimer's disease. Basically, it's saying that if you stop drinking, and don't improve, it's not Korsakoff's. Presumably, that means if it is Korskoff's, it should get better if you stop drinking. Since this is basically a vitamin deficiency, I find it hard to believe that he's suffering from it now, and not when he was a public drunkard. He's supposedly not drinking now. And even if he is drinking again, he's got the best medical care in the world, as president. They wouldn't let him suffer from a vitamin deficiency. Though he's ducked his "official" physical, a medical team travels with him everywhere he goes. This is standard with any president; they don't go anywhere without a five-person medical team, including at least one doctor, and a bunch of medical equipment.  
+ Stuttering, halting speech can also be caused by stress. George didn't have a care in the world 10 years ago.
+ Can we collect some of these diagnostic comments and start to build something with a bit of medical rigor to it - the comments seem to rotate around one or two topics, but with all the committees and advisory groups in this campaign - how do we get a few medical people to help us here?
+ If he does have some sort of physical, psychological or medication induced condition, it would be fairly certain to turn up in a full physical.
+ I saw some speculation that he was having difficulties landing the F 102 and was switched to two-seaters just before he quit flying. As for more recently, I am told that people having difficulties due to senility tend to be short-tempered. they are frustrated and blame others for treating them differently than they used to, even though the individuals does not think he is doing anything any differently. That could explain his temper.
+ no, bush's anger management skills are lacking because 1) he's a pompous little pussy who never had to lift a finger on his own to get anything and 2) a tremendous increase in his stress level. bush is in for the fight of his life because Kerry is stronger at policy (20 years in senate vs. 4 years as president), smarter, and more gracious. As bush watches the "re"-election slip through his fingers, he'll get more and more tense and thus more prone to the kind of manic anger we witnessed on Friday. more administration officials admitting that they knew the intelligence was flawed just fans the flames of this fire.
+ "wet brain"  You can read about Wernicke Korsakoff syndrome here http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000771.htm   But let me just say that some symptoms include.. Double vision   Eye movements abnormalities.Eyelid drooping   Loss of muscle coordination    Unsteady, uncoordinated walking Loss of memory, can be profound    Inability to form new memories and lest we forget....   "Confabulation (making up stories to explain behavior that have little relation to reality)" Hallucinations.   I really do think this is what we're dealing with here.
+ Double vision: Seeing two terror threats instead of one. Eye movements abnormalities. Eyelid drooping: Just look at his face in footage from the last debate. He looks like he's developing palsy. Loss of muscle coordination: Might explain how badly he speaks. Unsteady, uncoordinated walking: Some call it swagger; others call it "dumbass who took cocaine with alcohol back in the day" is now dealing with his brain damage) Loss of memory, can be profound: No need for explanation. Inability to form new memories: Same thing. and lest we forget.... Confabulation paint the (making up stories to explain behavior that have little relation to reality)" I swear they've developed a wheel-of-fortune that screws them over sick. Hallucinations. Musta had a bad dream, too though he didn't follow up with the insane resolve to kill him because "he made me wet the bed all the time."
+ of how a guy forgets he owns a lumber company. of how a guy cannot remember a single mistake. No wonder he has been postponing his physical...
+ the way I understand it. Confabulating means remembering something completely false, like "a ride in an alien spaceship" or "a memory of having eggs for breakfast". From what I understand, it doesn't mean distorting and stretching reality to fit one's version of the facts. I think confabulation would sound a lot more like Reagan reminiscing about his World War II experiences, when he'd never left the Paramount backlot. Or like the time my grandmother told us she was 18 (Alzheimer's). I think Bush's tenous relationship with reality have more to do with denial and self-delusion. He might even believe his own lies if he repeats them often enough.
+ Or like the time my grandmother told us she was 18 (Alzheimer's). This sounds to me more like she's forgotten everything since that point. She's not making up that she's 18, she's just forgotten all the time since that point. Alzheimers is a very sad disease, I'm sorry to say. 
+ I was thinking about faulty memory retrieval, but you're right, it doesn't really fit the pattern of confabulation at all. Alzheimer's has its own particular pattern of degeneration.
+ The last time I saw my grandmother outside a long-term care facility or hospital, she was convinced I was 3 years old, in spite of the fact that I was in my 30s. She had regressed to a time about 30 years prior. As the disease progressed, she regressed to her own youth, to a time before her marriage to my grandfather. He would visit her, and she wouldn't remember being married to him for almost 60 years. Sad doesn't even begin to describe it. Devastating is probably more accurate. Mad Poodle
+ ...or connections between Iraq and al Qaeda count?
+ Coke - maybe - more likely "dry drunk syndrome" or "wet brain" as the AA counselors describe it.
+ He's a full-time liar now. He had a lot fewer big whopping lies under his belt that he had to navigate around in 1994. Got to be a lot more careful what you say when you're covering up all the time, which tends to slow down your speech. That's all.
+ Clearly Bush's Friday performance was pharmcologically enhanced. What ever had him by the ass was letting go about two-thirds of the way through the debate. Bet the fly-no-the-wall consensus was that he crashed shortly after.
+ reading that in 1994? If not, there's really something going on here.
+ His eyes never move from the spot they are intently focusing on. If he were speaking before a large audience, he would certainly look around a bit. In the second spot he starts to mispronounce a word and quickly corrects himself, this is something that often happens when reading, even to totally normal people. Obviously, one cannot pick his best performance from ten years ago and compare it with his worst performance recently and make a case for a disease. We must also keep in mind that his father use to butcher the English language quite regularly too. East coast aristocratic types tend to come from a very small gene pool, which means this could be a genetic problem. That said, all those years of hard drinking could very well have affected his brain and it sure seems that recently he has made many more blunders. Is it a case that he was managed more efficiently before or that whatever condition he has is getting worse?
+ The difference is that George I always spoke like that and does it to this day. George W's condition has deteriorated over time. Had George W debated Gore like he debate Kerrey the first time he wouldn't have gotten within a mile of winning.
+ I may be wrong, as I don't have the actual source video at my disposal, but it appears to me the "10 years ago" clips are of a portion of the debate that allowed the participants to read prepared materials from a teleprompter. The "current" clip is clearly an extemporaneous answer from the first debate. PB has always been an competent reader, if not leader. That's why he is loathe to debate. As long as he can channel text from elsewhere, he comes off reasonably well. But a real question to which he must formulate an answer? Well, that's the problem. So are both clips of the same thing? Or is one a sample of "reading a script" while the other is of "answering a question?" If the later is true, even the most partisan lefty would have to admit they are not exactly the same thing. Don't get me wrong--PB is a dolt of the first rate and totally unfit to be our President. But it is a mistake to make a huge deal of an actual "hard" impairment with faulty "soft" evidence. One need only consider how the Bush campaign was innoculated from the facts of a case via apparently faked documents in the "CBS/National Guard" debacle. If you're going to make a charge this, shall we say "pointed," better make sure your evidence is perfect. Otherwise you're just delivering obfuscation ammunition to the fair and balanced hacks on the other side. My advice: compare apples to apples and nail the guy. And beware the backfire. After all, Ronald Reagan proved the American people's ability, and even preference, in backing the obviously mentally deficient, but genial, geriatric.
+ there was none in the debate - obviously, he was rehearsed - but that would also be true today - the difference is startling.
+ He was probably reading from a teleprompter a speech which he had already rehearsed extensively. Also, the inner-ear receiving device he likely utilized in the 1st 2004 debate would help explain that performance. I mean, talking and listening to a secret voice simultaneously--not an easy task, I'd wager. That said, however, I still can't imagine the Bush of today giving such a lucid speech as the one from ten years ago. Even if he was being prompted in that old footage, he still seemed to have a good grasp of what he was saying (beyond soundbites), which is more than I can say of any recent speeches he's given. And by the way, was anyone else as shocked as I was at how much older he looks today? He looks like he aged twenty, rather than ten, years between those clips. Kinda reminds me of the shocking comparisons of photos of Lincoln pre- and post-Civil War.
+ I want Bush out as much as anyone, but I don't think we need to take the low road. The truth is bad enough for these people. I need more information before I can weigh in on the meaning of that 1994 footage. What was the venue? Was he in a debate? Was he speaking to a friendly press corps? If he wasn't -- that is, if he could respond coherently while taking the questions of unsympathetic reporters or taking on his opponents -- I think we might be on to something. Otherwise, I think this footage is just unscientific, sort of the equivalent of taking "sensitive" or "global test" or "nuisance" out of context to hit Kerry. Most telling to me: note that we have footage from one, just one, Bush event when he spoke coherently, while we have footage from multiple events where he's speaking poorly. What could appear to be an effort to increase the data set -- look, Bush can't speak properly many, many times! -- could also be picking-and-choosing the best moments from the last 4 years. I do realize that the body of readily accessible archival footage from Bush's days as governor or candidate for governor is dwarfed by that from the last few years, but still, I'm suspicious. At the same time, I've heard from people who saw Bush's campaign in 1994 and said that he wasn't incoherent then. So there could be something to all this, then.
+ The 1994 footage was from a debate - and ALL of it is just like the two examples. It seems fairly clear, whatever piece of current footage you choose -blooper, fumble, or run-of-the-mill sound bite, he is DIFFERENT ten years later. In fact, a musician friend says his voice tone has changed by a perfect fifth - whatever that means. And how is concern over the mental health of a Commander in Chief taking the low road? The point is the point - this person is different than ten years ago - there is "a striking decline in his sentence by sentence speaking skills."
+ if we want to win. You don't bring a knife to a gunfight, and you don't take the high road when you're fighting Karl Rove. But this thing could backfire. I agree that the video is an apples and oranges comparison. And I would want second, third, and fourth opinions from the best neurologists in the country before I tried to make political hay of this. http://www.20six.co.uk/Heraldblog
+ My point is that if we use bad science, we're going to get burned by it in the end. If in fact he was all-around more coherent 10 years ago than he is today, then we're onto something, and we ought to run with this. I'd just like to see more evidence, but I'm hearing that this video shows something true . . . Short version: As much as we'd like it to be so, this video 'proof' just isn't sufficient to make a judgement. But it may be, owing to other evidence, that the video is correct.
+ This is extemporaneous! I watched this debate and still thought Ann beat him. He "lied" in this debate when he said he would eliminate welfare in Texas for able-bodied men. There was no welfare of that sort at the time - so I guess technically he was telling the truth. Nonetheless - he would never have won the governorship in Texas with his current performance. I lived in Texas for 40 years - but their standards are not even that low.
+ I don't think i'd have minded the eloquent speaker seen 10 years ago. I'm not sure he'd have fallen for the nutjobs agenda, either.
+ Did you hear the content of what he was saying? It was the early test version of the "compassionate conservative" with the nutjob just beneath the surface. He kept smirking, too. While talking about trying 14-year-olds as adults, he was smirking.
+ His thing on locking up 14 year olds as adults, and boot camps, all that nonsense, was just a little crazy, especially when it's been proven that such actions make the situation WORSE.
+ he was quite good. Very eloquent, seemed to be knowledgeable. I think this man wouldn't have given in to his puppeteers so easily as the current Dubya. But then, maybe they preconditioned him for the job as president. Like: "Ey George come on, take a line." GWB: "But, no, Karl, I got enough problems with the booze. And after all, this is Camp David. I'm not supposed to do it here." Karl: "Eh, Georgie, no problem, nobody will find out. And after all, it gives you the energy to achieve your goals. It helps, you know that. Trust me!" W: "Okay Karl, you might be right." Snoooort. "Woohooo, that's good stuff, Karl. Now gimme a kiss!" Karl: "But George, Laura will find out!" W: "I don't care, I get her to do anything I want. I just give her some painkillers, and whoop, the screamin' and naggin' stops. Now kiss me sweetkarl." And that's how it started. I know, I was there. Best wishes, Sharon. 
+ Rove was all over him. And there are a few verbal gaffes in the "then" clip--but they're subtle. Bush does do better with prepared speeches (on the stump, for example) than we've seen him do in the debates even now. There's a tremendous difference between a rote speech and off-the-cuff responses in what Bush surely perceives to be a hostile environment.
+ It was a debate. But I very recently read an article about his gubernatorial campaign. He was made to stick very, very closely to discussion of only four issues for which there were already bills in the Democratic TX legislature, so he could take credit when they passed, which they were bound to do anyway. Now he has four years of grievous errors to defend on far more than four issues.
+ It's only going to get worse.
+ All that pent up evil, just chewing away at his brain. 
+ Cheney can form complete sentences? :-)
+ toward his sock puppet.
+ Cheney's evil focused on his heart. Bush's evil focused on his brain.
+ Where does the footage in the first clip come from? If it's from a debate or other unscripted speech, then yes, there is quite a difference.
+ It's from the debates where he beat Ann Richards (no slouch) - ALL of the footage has him performing at this level - it's no fluke - whether you like the agenda or not, the degree of competence in speaking and connecting thoughts is startling!!! The doctor who made the "presenile dementia" diagnosis noted that is George was OK ten years ago and not OK today, that's a big difference from his always having been this way. If he was better ten years ago and worse today, that is an indication that something is organically wrong.
+ n/t
+ Run it on November 1.
+ And it is totally fair because it is simply showing himself, not some second or third hand "account" of something. It would be devastating.
+ in the clip from 19094, he argued for unsealing juvenile records so that law enforcement could know what they were dealing with. Unsealing records makes them public. So isn't it time, Mr. President, that all records involving arrests and related subject from your past be released, icnluding the driving records from Texas which you had purged,? Will you answer the simple question: how many times have you been arrested?
+ The sounds like you learned that at the Karl Rove Evil Campaign Management School.
+ I really had no idea it was that bad. What the hell is going on ?
+ Ronald Reagan was losing it for quite some time during his 2nd term.
+ I suspect he started to deteriorate when he was shot.  That is common with Alzheimer's patients. If you're young and healthy, anaesthesia doesn't do any permanent harm. It kills some brain cells, but you have plenty left. Not so people prone to Alzheimer's, especially if they are elderly. They don't have any brain cells to spare, and the deterioration in their mental function after anaesthesia can be striking.  CNN recently had a special on presidents' medical treatment. They asked their in-house doctor/correspondent, Sanjay Gupta, if he thought Reagan was suffering from Alzheimer's while he was in office. He hesitated a long moment, then answered, "Yes." He's a neurologist, so he knows what he's talking about. I'm surprised he went out on that limb; I was expecting the usual "I can't diagnose him without seeing him" stuff. 
+ And do everything possible to get as many people to see it. As all of you are very much aware -- THIS IS NO JOKING MATTER. The dude is dangerous and he may not realize what he is doing -- but those neoconistas pushing their agenda know exactly what they are doing.
+ else mentioned the following malady as a possible reason for Bush's actions during the debates: Tardive Syndromes Tardive (meaning "late onset") dyskinesia (meaning "abnormal involuntary movement") is a term used to describe a syndrome occurring as a result of treatment with medications that block the receptors for the neurotransmitter dopamine in the brain. Dopamine is involved in producing movement. If the receptors are blocked over a period of time, some individuals may develop uncontrolled involuntary movements. Onset of symptoms can range from a few months to several years after initiation of drug therapy. In contrast to a tardive syndrome (which as the name implies occurs only after extended exposure to a causative agent), symptoms may also occur within a few hours to days after initiation of drug therapy. This is called an acute reaction. Acute reactions are more easily managed and usually completely resolve within a few days. Tardive dyskinesia was first described in the 1950s in patients treated with antipsychotic medications. The tardive syndromes can affect anyone exposed to medications that block dopamine receptors; however, women, the elderly and persons with psychiatric disorders (particularly affective disorders) are at increased risk. The incidence is difficult to estimate as symptoms and severity can vary widely and many cases are probably undiagnosed, but it is believed that up to 50 % of persons with prolonged exposure to medications that block dopamine receptors will develop a tardive syndrome. The tardive syndromes include classic tardive dyskinesia, tardive dystonia, and tardive akathisia. Classic tardive dyskinesia most commonly appears as repetitive, somewhat rhythmical involuntary movements. Typical involuntary movements include tongue thrusting, lip smacking, lip pursing, grimacing and chewing movements, rocking of the trunk, pelvic thrusting, rotation of the ankles or legs, marching in place, irregular respirations, and repetitive sounds such as humming or grunting. Tardive dystonia may also be seen as part of the tardive syndrome. Dystonia is characterized by sustained muscle spasms causing involuntary movement and abnormal postures of the affected area. Some examples include torticollis (the head and neck are turned to the side), retrocollis (the head and neck are pulled back between the shoulder blades) and blepharospasm (the eyelids are squeezed forcefully shut). It can also cause excessive arching of the back. Tardive dystonia clinically appears identical to idiopathic or primary dystonia (meaning "of unknown cause") but is classified as a secondary dystonia since it is the result of a known agent. Tardive akathisia is the third type of tardive syndrome. Akathisia refers to a feeling of restlessness often accompanied by anxiety. In milder cases, the individual may complain of a sensation of inner restlessness and be unable to sit quietly without fidgeting . In more severe cases, the individual may actually be unable to remain seated and must pace or march around the room. Their sense of anxiety increases if they are unable to move about. While the above tardive syndromes are characterized by excessive movements, individuals may also experience a drug-induced parkinsonism which appears clinically like Parkinson's's disease. With drug-induced parkinsonism, there is an absence of movement. Individuals have slow movements with rigid or stiff muscles and tremor. When walking, a shuffling gait is present with a stooped posture and diminished arm swing. Facial expression is blunted causing a very solemn appearance. Of all the tardive syndromes, drug-induced parkinsonism is the most reversible. It resolves after the medication is stopped, but this may take up to 18 months. Some medications that are known to cause tardive syndromes include: Medications for gastrointestinal problems:   * metoclopramide (Reglan)   * prochlorperazine (Compazine) Medications for cough:   * promethazine (Phenergan) Medications for depression:   * amoxapine (Ascendin)   * perphenazine/amitriptyline (Triavil) Antipsychotics or Neuroleptics:   * chlorpromazine (Thorazine)   * thioridazine (Mellaril)   * trifluoperazine (Stelazine)   * perphenazine (Trilafon)   * fluphenazine (Prolixin)   * thiothixene (Navane)   * haloperidol (Haldol)   * pimozide (Orap) Diagnosis is based on the patient's history and a thorough clinical examination. The criteria for diagnosing a tardive syndrome can vary but is generally agreed to be exposure of an individual to a dopamine receptor blocking agent within 6 months of onset of symptoms which persist at least 1 month after stopping the offending drug. There is no laboratory test or x-ray to confirm the diagnosis; although, such tests may rule out other conditions if the diagnosis is questionable. The longer the drug is taken, the greater the chance of developing a tardive syndrome. Once the symptoms are noticed, the best course of action is to stop the medication if possible. Your physician will work out a tapering schedule to discontinue the drug as most should not be abruptly stopped. With chronic psychiatric conditions, this may not be an option and in these instances the medication should be kept at the lowest possible dose. Symptoms may temporarily worsen after the medication is stopped, but avoiding this type of medication offers the best hope for a remission. Symptoms may lessen or even disappear if the medication is restarted or the dose is increased, but movements will eventually break through with an increase in severity and be more resistant to treatment. For some, symptoms may first be noticed after the medication has been stopped (withdrawal emergent tardive dyskinesia). Once again, the best course of action is to remain off the offending drug. Tardive dyskinesias are challenging both to the patient and medical profession. The best treatment may simply be to withdraw the offending medication and allow the symptoms to resolve on their own. If symptoms are intolerable to the patient, oral medications may be used. Some studies suggest vitamin E may hasten the resolution of symptoms. Benzodiazepines such as clonazepam (Klonopin) may provide some relief of involuntary movements and anxiety. The main side effect seen with this type of drug is drowsiness. Dopamine depleting drugs are probably the most effective medications used to treat tardive dyskinesia. Two commonly used drugs in this class are reserpine and methyldopa. These medications have side effects including depression, apathy, lowered blood pressure and parkinsonism. Tardive akathisia may be treated with beta blockers such as propranolol (Inderal). Side effects can include slowed heart rate, lowered blood pressure and depression. It should be used cautiously in persons with certain types of heart and respiratory diseases. Tardive dystonia may be relieved with anticholinergics such as trihexyphenidyl (Artane) or benztropine (Cogentin). If is important to note that these medications (while beneficial in some cases of tardive dystonia) will typically worsen tardive dyskinesia. Certain types of tardive dystonia may also be treated effectively with local injections of botulinum toxin. Treatment may require trials of different medications at different doses and a great deal of patience. Just as each individual is unique, so must the medication regimen be tailored to their specific needs. While some tardive syndromes are persistent, most individuals gain some degree of relief with oral medications and the natural resolution of symptoms as time off the offending agent increases. Some experts believe the time an affected individual was exposed to the causative medication can be correlated to the length of time needed for symptoms to resolve. Research is currently underway in both the treatment and prevention of tardive syndromes. As our understanding of the neurochemistry of the brain increases, new medications are being developed that spare the dopamine receptors involved in syndromes such as tardive dyskinesia.
+ where Dubya is preparing to go on camera and makes those faces straight on. How often have you seen a grownup whose calling is other than dramatic arts do that sort of thing?
+ Nah, if it was Tardive Dyskinesia making those faces would be involuntary, and therefore he would be unable to stop making them during his speech. The fact is, he was about to tell the country that we had just gone to war, and he was having fun making faces at the camera.
+ are any of these diseases caused or brought on by stress? If there's anything that the Presidency brings, it is stress. He might have something, which would be unfortunate, but i'm not totally sure yet but then again, I am not a doctor either.
+ What all the upstream posts are talking about is a condition called "cerebral atrophy"--basically, shrivelled brain. it's the result of taking too many drugs and drinking too much booze. it also happens to people who get hit over the head too many times. It IS progressive, and it is not treatable. it can be easily seen on a simple CAT scan.
+ maybe. but if Bush's severe cognitive decline is caused by stress, it's the drinking to handle it that's the problem. remember the pretzel incident.
+ you think he was drunk during the pretzel incident?  By the way, are there any other (at least partially) substantiated theories going around that Bush has either resumed drinking or never stopped in the first place?
+ after 20+ years working in ERs I think it's safe to say that the most common reasons for facial trauma in males are 1. alcohol, 2. cintact with a fist or 3. both 1 and 2. given the lame reasons that were put out to explain the Bush's mishaps I am even more suspicious. healthy people just plain do NOT pass out choking on a pretzel the way it was explained. the Bush is well know to continue his habit of drinking non-alcoholic beer, which, by the way contains alcohol. I think it's quite likely that he was on a bender at the time.
+ Bush was the President during the biggest attack and intellegence failure in our countries history. He waged a war which was virtually proven to be a mistake. Not to mention any of the economic woes. Half of the country hates him, and most of the world hates him. His presidency is quite possibly the biggest failure in this country's history. Sounds like the most stressful job in the world to me.  You know Occam's Razor: ``the best model is the simplest one---the one requiring the fewest assumptions and modifications in order to fit the observations''
+ As long as we're engaging in rampant speculation, would the constant use of Sharpie pens reduce cognitive function?
+ If that's the case, then those of use who have used Sharpies for 20 years or so as laboratory researchers would all be completely screwed up.
+ but then, I've been chemically injured, and solvents send me into the stratosphere. Sharpies aren't the worst by far, but they're worse than ballpoint by a long way, maybe a 4 on a 10-scale. If you want a list of things that can cause a decline in cognitive function, find out what kids are huffing. Honest to God, the purchase of dry-erase markers is restricted to those of ages 18+ at my hardware store -- and I bet it isn't to keep teenagers from making TNT and blowing up their schools.
+ Sharpies give off fumes!  If I used a fat Sharpie every time I made a note I'd have a headache all day long. Ones are for trolls, and the comment is correct, diagnosis is for pros. From our desk chairs it is difficult to home in on exactly which neurodegenerative problems are affecting George Bush, but we can be fairly sure that all is not right in his head. I want him both drug tested and given a full physical workup! Someone should edit that long movie down to something useful.  It could be really powerful if it cut to the chase in about half of the time.
+ do we have footage of 2000 Gore/Bush debates to go by. I know he wasn't as far gone then as he is now, but it would be interesting to compare 1994 to 2000 to 2004. Could indicate a slow but noticeable decline in cognitive abilities. Remember also that Dean writes in his new book how he got along with Bush back when they were governors, thought he was articulate and definitely NOT stupid, and was always a stand-up kind of guy.  And, since we are all speculating out of our asses here, maybe this is the reason he is putting off his annual physical. Anyone know what kind of tests would be included in a standard Presidential physical that may indicate some type of neurological disorder?
+ This is a good question - I can't really recall any "Bushisms" from those debates - or this hesitancy or "striking decline in his sentence by sentence speaking skills." Gore had his own debating inadequacies and Bush was also able to win the personality side of things. Back then, don't think we were quite as worried - sort of a "how bad could it be?" thing. Media should get on this and do some comparison and tracking - this is not an unreasonable task for the media - is it?
+ yes, that is asking too much. Since the whole thing is highly speculative, any media outlet that attempted to do a serious examination of the possibility of a nascent mental disorder in Bush BEFORE hard facts were on the table would be accused of having a partisan agenda. Not saying I agree with it. Just saying I think that's what would happen.
+ BBC, 9/00 A mother of a list from About.com
+ If it showed he was having more trouble then than in '94, I'll be more likely to agree with there being some kind of medical problem. Right now I just see him as under a lot of stress. He feels persecuted because of all the flack he's (rightly) getting and it's making him insecure and angry. This isn't something I want in a president, either, though. It's a stressful job ("hard work!") and we need someone who can handle it.
+ I thought it was odd during the second debate how often George snorted. It was very strange. Like he had just done a line or two.
+ ... but that's because I have a bad cold. While it does seem that Bush has gone downhill, I'm not comfortable with long-distance diagnosis, and I don't like it much better when our side does it than when someone like Krauthammer does it for the other side.
+ ...since quite honestly, I wonder how many of us here actually have the degrees and knowledge to back up copying chunks of the DSM IV to attribute things like Korsakoff's syndrome and dementia to our president. I agree completely that he is visibly and obviously mentally ill... I remember watching his "omg iraq is in trouble" press conference during or right after the democratic primary, in which my entire household instantly and independently jumped to the conclusion of "wow, he looks medicated." And it's a definite priority to get the message out to the media that Bush is unhinged, as it's an extreme danger to our nation to have a man in charge that isn't mentally fit for the job. But specific diagnosis actually hurts our claims- the diagnosis will invariably be challenged, and gives the other side lots of ammuntion. Remember, the republican strategy in debate is to always argue against the single weakest point ad nauseum, even if that weak point is rather irrelevant to the overall thesis. Bottom line, it's much harder for the other side to prove that bush isn't going nuts, but it's very easy for them to prove that he doesn't have Korsakoff's, for example. Almost anyone who sees this video, especially an edited version that removes most of the commentary, will jump to the conclusion that he's gone batsh*t. But if we jump to an unpalatable conclusion for them, they may ignore the greater issue once they've seen that we were wrong about a minor part of it.
+ this doesn't show that he's getting dumber -- it shows that he's pretending to be dumb to "relate" to "regular folks." remember that he got nailed in his 1978 congressional campaign for saying he'd never been on a farm before. he vowed never to look like an east coast college boy again. He's not dumb -- he's smart enough to know when to look dumb. Please read the Dumb Theory: http://lasercub.blogspot.com/2004_08_01_lasercub_archive.html
+ ...and they'll treat you as an equal."--J.R. "bob" Dobbs
+ I'd agree that he's cunning, but I don't think he's the sharpest tool in the shed by a long shot.
+ While he definitely does employ that fake-farmboy bullshit a lot of the time, this performance wasn't one of those instances. If he was taking that angle, he would have been ingratiating, making with the jokes and homespun Tex-isms. He would have seemed charming and relaxed (for people dumb enough to buy that shit, anyway). Instead he came off like a bitchy, menopausal church secretary being drilled about the mysterious disappearance of the Spring Fling bakesale proceeds.
+ That is not at all unreasonable. It wouldn't make anyone look bad to do this. Write a letter to the editor asking why he hasn't had one recently.
+ getting a physical and a cat scan would do wonders to make me feel a bit (just a bit) safer with this lying jerkoff in the white house. note how Bush avoided the physical due to his "hectic campaign schedule". he must really be afraid of something if he's avoiding a physical which takes what, a couple of hours at most? it's not like he has to wait in line to see the doctor like the rest of us.
+ I'll say it again--the juxtaposition of now and then is powerful. If left to itself, it could certainly sway some people, even avid Bush supporters. But the video as a whole doesn't support its own diagnosis. It lacks credibility, somehow (if you'll excuse the expression.)
+ Just posted this as a diary, but since it's related I thought I'd post it here too Here's my first rough attempt at editing together some of Furious George's best moments from the second debate. Streaming Windows Media All I did was cut and paste -- and, with the exception of the last clip, everything is exactly in the order it occured in the debate. I'm not aiming for any semantic meaning to the flow of the clips, but I am trying for an emotional arc, of sorts. Reactions and critique greatly appreciated.
+ Superb. Bush as raving lunatic. Very well done.
+ Bush's fans and a many leaners would love this aggressively argumentative side of him. Of course the substance is BS, but that wouldn't matter to them.
+ this video doesn't show that he's getting dumber -- it shows that he's pretending to be dumb to "relate" to "regular folks." remember that he got nailed in his 1978 congressional campaign for saying he'd never been on a farm before. he vowed never to look like an east coast college boy again. He's not dumb -- he's smart enough to know when to look dumb. Please read the Dumb Theory: http://lasercub.blogspot.com/2004_08_01_lasercub_archive.html
+ sorry -- didn't see it, then realized after the second post that i'd posted the first as a response to an earlier comment. my bad.
+ Strut'n shrub mentioned during debate 2 progress in places like the Philippines in his war on terror. Guess some one down there wanted to send chimper a NOT on that one: Philippine Ferry Blast Said Caused by Bomb By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS Published: October 11, 2004 Filed at 1:10 a.m. ET MANILA, Philippines (AP) -- A bomb, likely planted by the al-Qaida-linked Abu Sayyaf group, caused a ferry fire that killed over 100 people in the Philippines' worst terrorist attack, an investigation concluded Monday. Abu Sayyaf, which is on Washington's list of international terror groups, claimed responsibility immediately after the Feb. 27 fire aboard the Superferry 14, saying it planted a bomb inside a television set that one of its members carried aboard.
+ Wow. I was impressed by the 1994 George W. Bush. He had good diction, command of the issues, and seemed vibrant and full of life. Now, he seems like a crazy old kook. If the 1994 George W. Bush were president, I'd feel a lot better. And the "he's acting" hypothesis isn't very good; I mean, he wasn't nearly that bad in 1994 and he got elected; and if he's been publicly taking a dive for the past 4+ years I have nothing but scorn and disdain for the man.
+ I know I wouldn't feel better. It was a blessing to have a much blunted Reagan's brain in office. When RR was governor of California, he was pure, unadulterated evil and SO much scarier because he was ON his game.
+ I'm not a Bush supported by any means, and I haven't read the article in the Atlantic (though I probably will now), but I don't think this video offers anything conclusive. If I had an agenda to make Bush look like he had "presenile dementia", then I would make a video of a few minutes of good speaking from ten years ago to his worst flubs today. That is, I'd make this exact same video, if I had that agenda. Education funding and prosecution of teenagers isn't as clear-cut as "war" on terrorism. Not to mention I think Bush plays up his own apparent idiocy so he doesn't look as stiff as his opponents. While I believe Bush had his ass handed to him in each debate, I laughed when he would slyly wink at members of the audience.
+ That should be "not a Bush supporter"...
+ None of us are Bush-supported!
+ First, for me, I wish they'd used better clips from recently. I don't think they are as demonstrative as they could be. There are much more painful moments on tape. Second, what about enormous stress and pressure? The position he is in now is HUGELY more stressful and higher pressure than being Governor. I for one can sound like a complete idiot under pressure when I'm feeling insecure, and very articulate and even quite witty when confident and at ease. It can be quite a contrast. I'm not defending Bush or saying he's not an idiot. I'm just wondering if it's a stretch to assume he's got dementia.
+ Futhermore, in Texas he was the challenger, and there must have been much less material to memorize. As incumbent president, not only is he in the position of defending an abysmal record, but he has to talk about a much wider range of subjects. He doesn't even like the job to begin with, apart from the parts where he gets to tell people what to do. Personally, I think there's a mild degeneration due to drugs & alcohol in his past (and possibly a little in the present) combined with stress and in-over-his-headness. Nothing sinister, but nothing to sneeze at either.
+ what he's saying isn't my favorite in terms of policy, but hes not being a jerk and he sounds like he at least knows what he's talking about. It's dramatic to see what people's expectations of competence in politicians have degenerated to. We used to expect the competence that th 94 Bush seemed to have, even if we didn't agree.
+ This kind of baseless speculation is a little childish and counter-productive. There is a similar site showing how Kerry is mentally unbalanced. Anyone can be caricaturized like this, the republicans are trying to dodge the issues and caricaturize Kerry all the time. Bush is just under stress, not crazy.
+ On rereading the original post, maybe it was just meant to be a joke and I missed it.
+ --there was a thread suggesting that Zell Miller had Alzheimer's, which really was out of bounds, for several reasons. First, there's no definitive pre-mortem diagnosis for Alzheimers, second, Miller's "symptoms" weren't that severe, and third, there are obvious, simple, and crystal-clear ways to explain Miller's political and emotional behavior over the last two years without resorting to armchair diagnosis. This isn't that. I'm not a neurologist, and chances are neither is anyone else on this thread, but there are a few important differences that make this a legitimate question. First, it doesn't really matter if a senator is crazy. Hell, Strom Thurmond got better the more senile he got, because his comparatively moderate staff was pulling all the strings (and besides, he mellowed out). But it does matter if doctors are noticing things like this in the POTUS. Oh, sure, we all remember when the wingnut medical corps remotely diagnosed Clinton with insanity brought on by a raging syphillis infection--but that was harmless, because it didn't really fit with his observed behavior. All the various neuropathies that people are suggesting here really could be at work--and there's good prima facie evidence that SOMETHING is at work. Second, the last time we soft-pedaled an incumbent president's deteriorating mental status, we got Reagan's second term. I don't think it made any of us feel better to say "Aha! I knew it!" when he announced his illness, just five years after he left office, and goodness knows how long after diagnosis. We're talking about this because we have doubts--well, you know, doubts are a reason not to vote for someone. And third, and in all seriousness (because I really do respect people who are still willing to be high-minded at this late hour), if we're wronging him, if this really is completely unfair--boo freakin' hoo. If this is all the further we sink into the mud in the service of booting him out of office, we won't even have to change our shoes.
+ ...with your boo-hoo point, but I still don't think this video is the best way to make the case.
+ his horrible errors in judgement? It would certainly make him very easy to manipulate, like his Uncle Dick and Uncle Karl are doing.
+ Bush has been a god-awful president and needs to go down. His record of "accomplishments" are all that need to be attacked, imho. Cherry-picking clips from now and then to make a point and making armchair diagnoses is something i expect the other side to do.
+ we know he's got a grandiose personality disorder. this is bigger. I think that he probably has frontal lobe dementia (we in Emergency Medicine call it "squash rot"-sorry) that affects all aspects of personality, intellect, memory, interpersonal relations. lack of emotional control, regressive behavior and disinhibition are common.
+ Dementia? A back brace hidden under his suitcoat? What is the status of the pResident's health?
+ Again.
+ he have a perfectly flat, level surface on which to walk, even if such needs to be specially constructed for the occasion?
+ Huh? Really? Perhaps they want to avoid Gerald Ford moments. Perhaps they want to avoid Gerald Ford moments being renamed George Dubya Bush moments.
+ I notice that when he walks down the stairs from Air Force One, he hangs onto the handrail and carefully observes the steps below as he comes to them. Like a person older than he is might do. 
+ I do that, and I'm no older than Bush. I've ALWAYS done that. I do it on the steps in my house, and I've lived there 20 yrs. I don't like falling. I don't like feeling like I might fall. I'm not a physical wreck, I don't have a balance problem, I'm not arthritic. I just don't want to fall. And if I had cameras on me all the time, you bet I'd be really careful not to.
+ i remember reading (here maybe) that NYC had to construct a flat plank walkway in one of the park's where Bush was commemorating 9/11 this year. the city workers made comments like 'fancy boy can't even get his feet dirty in the mud' or something to that effect, but maybe that had something to do with him being on a flat surface at all times.  of course, we probably are over-reaching here, but it's kind of fun to speculate.
+ Right -- I've read a few articles snarking about how Bush doesn't like to have his feet touch dirt, prompting the temporary-but-costly installation of all kinds of ramps and walkways. I assumed that it was his fondness for ceremony and monarchical touches. But if it's actually because of this flat-surface thing, hmm, very interesting.
+ my first thought was that they enabled him to walk purposefully without having to look down.
+ we're talking about, wouldn't Curious George Prehensile Dementia Video - Watch & Download be a better title?
+ So exactly how does he exhibit its prehensile functions? Does he just wave it around and use it to grab/pick up objects? Or does he use his prehensile dementia for practical things, like climbing? Just wondering. Got a report on prehensie dementia to submit on the next internet over soon.
+ it's wood.
+ how does he exhibit its wood functions? Does it float? Does he burn it? (can dementia even float OR burn?) I mean, he pretty much made a church out of it... we can call it "Bushtianity" and it'll just stand for the mass delusion the administration has pulled on so many Americans.
+ The Pre-Senile Dementia Club for Men. I'm not just a member, I'm the President!
+ This explains why the President didn't take his physical!!!
+ Nooooo, not for the campaign to run with. This is still way too tinfoil hat to run with. There has got to be A LOT more evidence.
+ You're right, but people not connected to the campaign should keep asking questions until we get some answers from medical people.
+ In 1984 Reagan was demented and won in a landslide. Americans don't hold that kind of thing against a fella.
+ swallowing difficulty...    Swallowing is a complex act that involves the mouth, throat area, and esophagus (tube that transports food to the stomach). Many nerves and muscles affect the correct function of these parts. Part of the act of swallowing is under conscious (voluntary) control. However, much of swallowing is involuntary.    Problems at any point -- from chewing food and moving it into the back of the mouth, to moving the food into the stomach -- can result in difficulty swallowing.   Pretzels anyone?
+ I bet he's got multiple sclerosis - oh, wait, that's Jed Bartlett...
+ I downloaded the file and tried watching it with mplayer. The video is fine but there's no audio. I wonder if it's fixable.
+ That's all there is. And it's a weensy bit cheesy for my taste, for which there's no accounting, mind you.
+ It's a QuickTime movie - should work fine w. QuickTime player
+ The 1994 Bush was clearly just as arrogant as today. It looked like he was reading a cue card. He screwed up a phrase as usual ("14-year-olders"). Behind the time clock thing, every now and then I could see his arrogant smirk. Having said this though, I do agree that something is not right with him-- it could be the medical problems described in this thread, or it could be that he's heavily medicated half the time. By the way, superficially speaking, he should be using some hair gel-- because his haircut and combing make him look looney and unstable.
+ from a debate? There's a big difference between extemporaneous responses, the kind you need to be able to come up with to debate effectively, and the ability to properly deliver a scripted speech. If the footage from years ago represents scripted remarks, it stands to reason Bush would appear significantly less coherent when thinking on his feet than when working off the fruit of significant speechwriting labor.
+ against Ann Richards in the '94 gubernatorial campaign.
+ Debate vs. debate is totally legit comparison footage.
+ I've read all of the posts saying this footage is from a debate against Ann Richards ... and I hate Bush as much as anyone here, BUT ... damn! I have to say, I'm seeing the fixed eyes of a guy reading from a TelePrompter in that 1994 footage!! Even the one or two screw-ups look like a guy reading. He's READING! I need more. I need absolute, irrefutable proof that all of that is extemporaneous. Show me more 1994 footage, because if a seasoned Bush-hater like me is skeptical, think of what the VRWC is going to make of this.
+ The authors of Bush's Brain talk about how he was coached for two years prior to his 1994 run on the issues of Texas politics and what his stances would be. The issues during a Presidency are of much greater quantity and complexity and change daily. He doesn't get the rehearsal time that he had in 1994. Back then he was he was a well coached below average salesmen selling the latest product. This time he is a below average salesmen with inadequate training selling product that has to be defended more than sold. He should like a fucking idiot. 
+ Australia's Howard "re-elected".
+ Sorry, I didn't find the video that striking or compelling at all.
+ This and the "was he wired" story is bullshit destruction and there's nothing to either.
+ Compare Bush's and than compare Kerry/Weld and K/B and let's see if it is deconstruction. This asshole has got a finger on the nuclear go- you know, the one that erases difference between Republicans and Democrats among other things
+ Distraction...not destruction.
+ The Atlantic Monthly in I think August had an article about Bush's and Kerry's respective debating abilities, and the writer made the point we see here, that something has changed. Whether by design, by chemicals, or by biology, Bush 94 is a fucking different person. This is worrisome.
+ I've noticed symptoms of cognitive impairment for a while. It's not just his stammering, strange facial tics, and blanking out that is alarming . Even more, it is his use of neologisms (words that don't really exist) that catch my attention. Uneducated people may misuse words or mispronounce them, but they don't make them up or conflate words so consistently. Anyway, Bush may have been a bad student, but he is clearly educated. It is an important symptom. I lean toward dementia rather than Korsakoff's. There is something about his erratic irritability that also leads me in this direction. I wonder if they do any neuropsych testing as part of the physical, and if that would account for his avoidance.  Hg
+ seems difficult to apply to the CIC. And perhaps unnecessary, since we all know that something is just not quite right about George. On the other hand, what if hackers did bust into his earpiece during the fist debate and his grimacing was a series of desperate signals to his Base (yes, The Base...erm....)about interference and strange texts he was receiving. In that condition he'd be ad libbing, though unable to concentrate. So then he goes back to The Base and has a screaming fit, so that they don't fit him with an earpiece for the second debate, which showed the world Georges au naturel. Either way, it's terrifying. I don' know what you guys need, but he did steal the 2000 election and he ought to be out on his ear by now. That's the one with the earpiece.
+ Well, there's certainly a visible difference. I think the point might come across more effectively if there were a clock on the 2004 footage as well, so viewers could see that it hasn't been slowed down or otherwise altered. There's a nitciable drop in the pitch of his voice between the two pieces of video, which might lead some doubters to think that some tampering has occurred. More compelling than the differences in the videos is his overall performance -- but that's not something that can easily be put into a concise 'show and tell' format.
+ Republican friend in Nashville says it's a perfect fifth - the tapes were not messed with - 1994 from KERA TV in Dallas - the other off the debates - the 1994 stuff all pretty much the same - Bush buttoned up - current stuff all over the lot - from blooper to halfway decent - but NONE of the current tape is up to the 1994 stuff - which was a debate - memorized, maybe -but no teleprompter.
+ From last month's Boston Globe.
+ I just watched a History Channel program called "High Hitler" which explores the question "How did amphetamine abuse, Parkinson's Disease, and tertiary syphilis impact on his state of mind?" The program is a fascinating look at how his secret addiction and diseases affected Hitler's judgment, including his fatally slow reaction to the allied invasion of Normandy. Now, I am not in this context suggesting any other comparison between Bush and Hitler, but when I watched the program shortly after having viewed this video, I could not help noticing some parallels, and asking the question: What happens if a world leader commanding huge military forces suffers from hidden addictions and diseases which affect his state of mind and judgment?
+ to make a diagnosis. With all due respect to my colleague, for me this video material isn't sufficient to be able to make any kind of diagnostic assessment of any kind of organic brain pathology, which is what presenile dementia, Korsakoff's, etc. all are. This "mental status exam" is neither positive not negative. Indeed, the video resembles the material on which the Administration built its case for Iraq's WMD. On the surface of it, it's simply the same guy, albeit 10 years later, being quite different, clearly under stress, and a little worse for wear. But the circumstances - immediate, political, personal, etc. - are probably sufficiently different to account for his different behavior. The recent segment could easily be within normal limits for any of us under similar circumstances. Not knowing what to say isn't always, not even usually, a symptom of pathology. Most of the time, you're floundering because you simply don't know what to say; you know you ought to know but you don't, and then you're embarrassed and nervous about that, which compounds the problem. However, that's not to say he doesn't have a problem, in my opinion. It's psychological, as I outlined in a diary I posted on Oct. 6th, "GWB: A Character Analysis", for anyone who's interested. (Sorry about its length, but I wasn't able to pare it down more.)
+ I do not have psyche specialty training, but no doctor makes a diagnosis based on watching a video, or even extended watching from afar. I am not sure about the doc quoted on the video, but this is irreponsible and bad medicine to claim there is only on cause for these changes. These diagnoses require a physical exam and mental status exam in person. Lab testing is also required to eliminate the possibility of other etiologies. Bush was probably better prepped and more focused 10 years ago. He seemed more coherent in the 2nd debate. He may have a cognitive decline, but you cannot base a diagnosis for these clips.
+ If there's anything wrong him I still vote for the "tranq'ed to the gills" explanation. Benzodiazepines are excellent for making you narcotised and ataxic.
+ Could not use the interview stuff w. O'Reilly - different venue - BUT when he was relaxed he looked like he'd had a dose of something that made him very happy. You have to put up w. Fox to see it and they may have cut the happy mumbles parts out - but it was pretty weird
+ Invoking William of Occam's principle that the simplest explanation is the most likely to be true I have come to the conclusion, after watching the President debate and campaign, that Bush simply doesn't want the job. He is trying to lose, without outright saying so, and is caught between that desire to lose and the VP's delusions. The tension is between a President who neither wants the job nor feels up to the job, and a VP and whole host of campaign staff who desperately want to avoid losing. Bush just wants to go back to Crawford and sink into anonymity. The contrast between now and 1994 isn't one of cognitive ability vs pre-senile dementia, but between a man (then) who once thought he could ressurect his life through politics and a thoroughly beaten man (now) who is attempting desperatly to fend off the incipient failure. He is pushed but Melman, who, if he loses, will never work in Republican politics again... and by Rove, who, if he loses, may end up in handcuffs. And by the Neocons, led by the VP who are truly delusional and truly detached from reality. Given this dynamic, I would say that this is probably one of the most dangerous crises points in our history. God help us all.
+ But I fear that as much as Bush knows that he is not up to the job, I do think that he wants to see himself as a hero, an avenger, and a man chosen by God to lead the people. He wants to go down in history, not sink into anonymity. I think, that in the manner of most cocky stupid people who ALWAYS get saved at the last minute by something, someone, or a big pile of cash, he is betting the farm that something will come along and save his sorry ass. History would show him that just like every time in the past, there are at least even odds that he can win despite his obvious incompetence and his growing mental disabilities. Maybe this will be the time that he will fail. And if so, if Kerry wins the election, and they can't overturn it, my greatest fear is for the damage he will do on his way out. I am deeply, deeply concerned for the Nov-Dec timeframe.
+ Wernicke-Korsakoff syndrome is a brain disorder involving loss of specific brain functions caused by a thiamine deficiency. Causes, incidence, and risk factors   The syndrome is actually a spectrum, including two separate sets of symptoms, one of which tends to start when the other subsides. Wernicke's encephalopathy involves damage to multiple nerves in both the central nervous system (brain and spinal cord) and the peripheral nervous system (the rest of the body). It may also include symptoms caused by alcohol withdrawal. The cause is generally attributed to malnutrition, especially lack of vitamin B1 (thiamine), which commonly accompanies habitual alcohol use or alcoholism. Heavy alcohol use interferes with the metabolism of thiamine, so even in the unusual cases where alcoholics are eating a balanced diet while drinking heavily, the metabolic problem persists because most of the thiamine is not absorbed. Korsakoff syndrome, or Korsakoff psychosis, tends to develop as Wernicke's symptoms diminish. It involves impairment of memory out of proportion to problems with other cognitive functions. Patients often attempt to hide their poor memory by confabulating. The patient will create detailed, believable stories about experiences or situations to cover gaps in memory. This is not usually a deliberate attempt to deceive because the patient often believes what he is saying to be true. It can occur whether or not the thiamine deficiency was related to alcoholism and with other types of brain damage. Korsakoff psychosis involves damage to areas of the brain involved with memory. Symptoms  Return to top Vision changes Double vision Eye movements abnormalities Eyelid drooping Loss of muscle coordination Unsteady, uncoordinated walking Loss of memory, can be profound Inability to form new memories Confabulation (making up stories to explain behavior that have little relation to reality) Hallucinations
+ nor do I play one on TV, so no attempt here to diagnose. However, I do remember a similar feeling I got when somewhere around 1987, some news show I was watching showed two clips of Reagan, one recent, and another shot during his 1980 campaign. I don't remember the topic of the comparison, and it wasn't the goal of the news story to point out the difference in style, but I felt I was watching two different people. While I never liked Reagan or his policies even back then (I was in high school and college through the Reagan years,) and always though him a bit touched, this pointed it out that there was a problem in very stark terms.  While this video of Bush II certainly isn't flattering, and could be said to show a problem, the contrast doesn't seem as pronounced as I remember it was in Reagan's case. At that point, Reagan was pretty advanced in his years, and I felt it had to be the onset of some sort of Dementia. It was clear to me - There was nothing behind the eyes anymore. That certainly made it seem plausible to me the later accusation that decisions from the White House could have been effected by Nancy's astrologer, because Ron was beyond running the show at that point. Which brings up another important point - a person suffering from any of the mental problems mentioned above is much more susceptible to being manipulated by people, especially people close to them. I don't think I need to elaborate any more on this subject - Class: Discuss. However, to be fair, if you go back and look at video of any of the presidents since the TV age, I think you would find that comparing the pre- and post- service footage to show two different people. The earlier zeal and spring in their step has been flogged out of them by the stresses of the job, they are slower, more tired, and they have all aged beyond their years. Most recover somewhat once they are out of office for a little while. (I don't remember any recovery from Reagan, but then again, there wasn't much footage of him after he left office.) I have noticed this in footage of Nixon, Carter, Reagan, Bush I, and yes, even Clinton. Despite having the best doctors, it seems the presidency sucks out the life force of the men who have served - and I think we can all understand that. So certainly this effect is at least part of what we are seeing with Bush II, but how do we ever know if that accounts for all of the difference?
+ Bush did manage to force the words out in a semi-coherent fashion. Certainly the first debate performance was consistent with dementia, but I am inclined to say now that the problem is just plan, garden-variety stupidity.
+ It seems that a short fuse - quick to anger - is also part of "dry drunk syndrome" which is probably the type of dementia he has.
+ It's crazy that I'm reading this now. My roommate works at Mass General Hospital, one of the top research hospitals in the world. He has been telling me for a few months that a doctor there has been claiming the exact same thing for a while. This isn't one quack doctor. Apparently to those who know the symptons this is completely obvious.
+ In a fair media climate, the media would be clamoring for the President to take the physical - In the past, the media has pressured candidates to make public their physical results. Let's try and bug them about it. After all, we're talking about the guy with his finger on the button.
+ There may be nothing to this, but I found it extremely disturbing. It certainly explains why Dick runs the show. Coupled with the refusal to take a routine physical, it looks a little fishy. Bush could put it all to rest by just taking his physical, so why doesn't he? I think it would be inappropriate for Kerry's campaign to push this, but the media should. Especially in light of the fact that our VP has a serious heart condition. President Hastert? Yikes!
+ It worked for me last night, but now I get "PAGE NOT FOUND."
+ I understand the link is down, I posted the video to a public bittorrent tracker yesterday: http://www.demonoid.com/torrents/download/26403/BushTenYrs.torrent If you aren't familiar with bittorrent, you can get a client and information at: http://bittorrent.com/
+ Requires a membership. Consider posting it elsewhere.
+ when I uploaded the .torrent I selected the "Yes, make this torrent public" option, so it shouldn't require a membership. Did it give you an error? If there's another public torrent service you'd recommend, let me know.
+ I'll see if I can fix it. Recommendations for public trackers are still welcome.
+ Ok, hopefully this will work to get the movie via bittorrent without requiring an account: http://66.90.75.92/suprnova//torrents/2766/BushTenYrs.torrent
+ Show them some love!
+ This is great news, but someone saying they're doing it in a phone call doesn't cover it. Which Sylvan office is it specifically? How widespread is the ad pull? Will they issue a press release? With the answers to these questions, other advertisers can be persuaded.
+ They have not pulled ads but are investigating due to number of complaints. Heads up: GREAT EARTH VITAMINS, listed under the SBG's advertisers list, does not advertise on Sinclair -- according to the very weary woman who asked me if there were a way to get the phone calls to stop. Also, CHILI'S -- call the 800 number, not the 515 number -- that's a single restaurant and they do not make their advertising decisions. The manager is, um, weary. PFIZER: Call Ms. Fishman at 212-733-6029
+ I have removed them from the database.
+ questioning Sinclairs move. read here http://www.usatoday.com/money/media/2004-10-11-sinclair_x.htm 
+ Oh how I hope that this ruins Sinclair. No one can doubt their political leanings, and the article makes clear that this was done because a Bush re-election might be their only chance to survive. How ironic would it be if this begets their undoing? Karma is kicking ass and taking names.
+ Sinclair has established ties to the Bush Administration, as shown in (shameless plug) my diary.
+ Toyota today... I called every local dealer and we buy a Toyota every 3 years... my local dealer is going to make some noise! Three Sylvan learning centers called me last night and said they will complain to the head of the company.... thank you Sylvan Learning Centers, LET'S KEEP WRITING ,,, MORE PRESSURE NOW, NOT LESS
+ from your link: "Sinclair did not return a call. Mark Hyman, vice president of corporate relations for Sinclair and an on-air conservative commentator for the company, told the Associated Press that the DNC's plan is "absolutely absurd." He added, "Would they suggest that our reporting a car bomb in Iraq is an in-kind contribution to the Kerry campaign?" No comment needed. What an asshole...
+ that the war news is bad for Bush? I guess they didn't get the message that things are going beautifully there.
+ terrorists are acting in Kerry's interests, ie, supporting Kerry. I like your reading of this as well, though!
+ David Smith, whoremonger hypocrite, Papa would be so proud of you driving the company you inherited into the ground with shame and corruption.
+ While propaganda is an in-kind contribution to the Bush campaign. Sounds about right.
+ to be another futile gesture!! Good going to us!
+ We got 'em by the tail, don't let go now! This is pretty funny actually, they'll be losing money on this. Still, it's all the more reason to keep working them over. http://money.cnn.com/2004/10/11/news/newsmakers/sinclair_kerry/index.htm?cnn=yes
+ Isn't this a donation? Go to court in every jurisdiction.
+ but if I were one of their shareholders I wouldn't be too happy about them wasting a resource like that.
+ Lets hope it continues.
+ No problem. If we do our job, there'll be no commercials to run...
+ Just an FYI: Sinclair had always planned to run this "news" piece without advertising. Per yesterday's New York Times: "Because Sinclair is defining the documentary - which will run commercial free - as news, it is unclear if it will be required by federal regulations to provide Mr. Kerry's campaign with equal time to respond." Keep up the great work everyone!
+ The movie Stolen Honor is about the sacrifice of solders held in prison camps in Vietnam. It is their opportunity to tell the American what they went through. It is the first time in 30 plus years that they have chosen to come forward. Why do you think that is? This is their desire. Blue Cayuga wrote: > From:  address:>  > Dear Mr. Smity, > I am writing because I would like to ask you, as one American to > another, why would you want to run a movie that treats a Viet Nam war > veteran so disrespectfully. I don't care if you're a Democrat or a > Republican, have we stooped so low that we now take the life of one > who went to war when his country called, regardless of your reason and > publicly humiliate him about that time in his life? >  > I was raised in a home where a father lost his life in war. Do you > know how that feels Mr. Smith? Do you know how it feels when any time > a man in uniform walked by, your mother wept? Do you know how it > feels every time the television show had Air Force planes or Navy > boats on it, your mother wept. Do you know how it felt to watch my > brother grow up, having never seen his father? Never had him to  > bring to school for special events, never held his hand, never sat on > his knee.... I am sure that you do not Mr. Smith, otherwise you would > never take part in publicly humiliating any person who fought for our > nation. >  > This is beyond disgraceful. Have we moved so far from common decency > that anything goes?  Is any price worth what we lose as a nation? >  > Please Mr. Smith, for my mother and my brother, could you please > reconsider showing this movie?  This denigrates all vets, living and > dead. >  > Sincerely, > S. M. Kyle
+ is Sinclair's reply? It sounds like it was written by a 12-year old.
+ One wonders why Sinclair thinks this is a good time to air the "sacrifice of solders (sic)" from Vietnam, but was unwilling to air the same from troops who died in Iraq.
+ this needs to be rung loud and clear to the media. Sinclair DOES NOT air Nightline reading the names of dead in Iraq War DOES air "documentary" about Vietnam POWs that is anti-Kerry agtiprop right before election this corporations executives are clearly operating with solely partison politics as the primary decision factor, instead of actually running their company for profit & shareholders. i bet somebody on Wall Street is going to make a really big stink this week...
+ left out my main agreement with your point... they are clearly focusing on a war 30 YEARS AGO versus the CURRENT ONE RIGHT THIS VERY MINUTE. this needs to be the frame for the counter attack. it is utterly offensive.
+ The website should now be working for those of you unable to access it. I will pull Sylvan from the list as soon as a press release is issued.
+ in which market are you?
+ Awesome, let's keep it up and really make them feel the heat.
+ which advertiser is it so we can go buy their products?
+ find it.. everything is there.. addresses, etc.
+ which advertiser?
+ Democratic children need tutoring too... (paraphrasing the supposed Michael Jordan sneaker line)
+ Do you have a method that we can contact them here in thanks? We should spread the word about this. If you did not know this alreay, one of the nation's larges civil rights groups - the Anti Defamation Leauge just condemed Sinclair for anti-Jewish remarks made in today's Washington Post. Please be sure to tell the advertisers that you are not happy with anti-Jewish remarks in addition to what they are doing. This will made advertisers FLEE!
+ What if we can get the ADL to make calls to advertisers? That would stick a scorpion in their trousers.
+ STate that the Sylvan Learning Center has pulled their ads in the TITLE of the diary!! Otherwise, this is too vague.
+ I've emailed a lot of their advertisers saying stuff like "I've eaten my last Pringles -- and I eat a lot of them -- and there are MILLIONS MORE LIKE ME." If we hit these greedy bastards hard enough in the wallet, we might be able to prevail.
+ Please share this with us
+ and give them positive feedback.... good deeds must not go unrewarded... Yeah for Sylvan Learning Centers!
+ This is a biggie; they are a national company that does a lot of advertising. Is it the national company or a local office that is pulling the ads?
+ Let's keep it up! Get the bastards....
+ I just called the Tampa office and the lady who does advertising said she did not know anything about this. Just want to make sure that we get this right.
+ Before we jump too high in our celebration.
+ Because what this means is the Sinclair Stolen Honor thing is now officially a 'controversy' in the eyes of advertisers - once someone starts pulling ads it sends up a big red flag. In our e-mails and calls to other Sinclair advertisers we need to mention that this large advertiser has already pulled ads, and that the Anti-Defamation League has condemned Sinclair over this flap.
+ Here is the letter from the ADL to the Washington Post - you can cite this to advertisers.
+ Which email is the most effective one to thank them.. i went to their site and their contacts seem to be directed to the individual centers. i want to send it to their corporate site. thanks
+ I didn't realize Sylvan was a 'franchise', or is it? Anyway, I sent my 'thank you' to the investor's main headquarters. The guy may have dropped his drawers when he got it, particularly if he doesn't know what's happening yet. Since I referred him back to this thread, he soon will! Anyway, feel free to contact him and thank him...if he hasn't gotten the message yet, he soon will! chris.symanoskie@laureate-inc.com <chris.symanoskie@laureate-inc.com>
+ Let's show them some support! Did you say Sylvan Learning Centers in Tampa, Florida or all of them in U.S.? It sounds like they might like our message better than casual readings of "My Pet Goat".
+ We really need to verify this. I have called the Tampa office and the lady said she knew nothing about this. She said she knows nothing about the issue. The original poster needs to be very specific here on what office was contacted and who was spoken with.
+ Isn't it in Sylvan's corporate interests to have an administration that doesn't properly fund education in power? I'm sure it's quite a conundrum for them.
+ Sylvan works very closely with public schools. The folks who run it back in Baltimore are decent people. It is staffed by many former teachers, particularly in urban areas....
+ Sylvan is a good company, on the whole. Individual franchises may differ, but the company supports education and is staffed by many current teachers as well as former. If the news that they've pulled advertising is true, that just puts them one more notch up in my opinion. Full disclosure: My husband currently works for Sylvan, and they are the only thing between us and the poorhouse.
+ Sylvan's mission isn't to supplant public education, but to augment it.
+ Is one of the major beneficiaries of No Child Left Behind. One of the provisions of NCLB is that failing schools must offer supplemental services from a state approved provider. Sylvan is generally among those state approved providers. Sylvan is owned by Educate, Inc. a nationwide provider of educational services.  For what its worth...
+ i would think sylvan wouldn't want to offend the democratic half of the country. that's a lot of potential clients. a boycott targets the company's bottom line -- there's no point in appealing to its sense of right ot wrong.
+ particularly since there stock doesn't seem to be doing that well...
+ Kerry said NCLB is something he supports. What he doesn't support is that it was underfunded. It would behoove any organization which gets funding by NCLB to back Kerry.
+ I called a local Sylvan franchise to ask about who takes care of the advertising. The manager said that most of their advertising is done through the national campaign. Here's the parent company: Laureate Education, Inc. 1001 Fleet Street Baltimore, Maryland 21202-4382 Telephone (U.S. calls): 866-4-LAUREATE I left a voicemail with someone in the advertising department. I'll let you know if I hear anything.
+ Laureate is no longer the parent company for Sylvan Learning Centers. It has been Educate, Inc. since July of 2003. I talked to Wendy in the media department, and she said that the national campaign does not make politically based buying decisions, and buys based on networks and markets that reach its target audience rather than on who owns the station. So it's not the national organization that's pulled its ads. However, there are also co-op ad buys. One of these may have been pulled, but the national office does not know and neither do we. Anybody care to explore co-op ad buys in Florida?
+ Walmart? Subway? Dominoes? Corona?
+ I contacted Toyota (from the Dayton market) and their response was that they didn't support any advertiser's view but it was a target audience. There are very few TV stations out there and two of them are owned by Sinclair. I wrote them back, detailing more about what was said and how this is basically an in-kind donation to the Bush campaign. We'll see what happens.
+ I wrote them back, detailing more about what was said and how this is basically an in-kind donation to the Bush campaign. We'll see what happens. that's a really good point to get across to them. the people writing really need to emphasize that these companies that are working with sinclair can now consider themselves direct contributers to the bush campaign. it's really that simple.
+ Emphasize that even if they don't consider themselves making an in-kind donation to the Bush campaign, we will.
+ You might also mention that this will be remembered several years down the road. It will be a moment in this election that will be analyzed as to it's legality and fairness in many business law and poli-science forums with wide exposure. Businesses that recognize this risk, will be recognized as a better investment.
+ My tactic here in Asheville, NC is to direct WLOS advertisers to spend their money with the FOX affiliate, which is run out of Greenville, but which gives more coverage to WNC than other network affiliates. (The two networks are considered comparable by ad buyers.) Tell concerned advertisers that switching their ad budgets away from a Sinclair station to ones that 'properly represent local issues and voices' will be considered a vote of confidence in those local stations, and earn rewards with business.
+ I wrote them back, detailing more about what was said and how this is basically an in-kind donation to the Bush campaign. Does anyone know the tax status of in-kind donations? Also, how is monetary value assigned to them? It would be nice if they're taxable, and that the tax payments would come out of the stations' budgets. 
+ Iams -- they're very concerned, pressing their corporate parent (?) to review advertising and talking to their ad department; Circuit City -- stressed that we do the bulk of our big-ticked X-mas shopping there and those $ will be going elsewhere this year. Rep had never heard of this before; General Mills -- Rep sounded like he was in India; would report to corporate hq. Stressed how much we liked GM products, how much we'll miss them, but they weren't worth rigging the election over; Great Earth Vitamins -- they say they're not advertising on Sinclair, that they're on the list by mistake, and asked how they get off.
+ Great Earth Vitamins -- they say they're not advertising on Sinclair, that they're on the list by mistake, and asked how they get off. It sure would be a great story if they really were a Sinclair advertiser. I wonder how many of their advertisers really feel this way right now? I'd bet there are some that wish they could jump out of that sinking boat.
+ i own stock in Proctor and Gamble and seem to remember this.
+ Just checked. I spelled it wrong above. Go to pg.com. 
+ iams yesterday, and p&g today to let them know I feed eukanuba and have for 13 years and will switch. i have heard nothing back.
+ At least that's what I'd tell them if I could get through on their form mail on their website. Kinda looks like they may have disable that link. Too much traffic?
+ FOX NEWS needs to be the next target...and we need to keep after them until they squeal...that means after the election as well.
+ Kudos to Sylvan - and kudos to Rakkasan - this is a great way to fight Sinclair!
+ Great work Everyone! Yeeha! That slimy station can get right wing product endorsements all it wants. But mainstream American companies need to know now they cannot sit on the fence and filth up the airwaves, pollute our media, by sponsoring stations that deceive, lie, and pretend to advocate neutrality when they clearly are partisan mouthpieces. Cleaning house, folks! Just step aside while I vaccume up those crumbs.
+ Can someone post it on the Yahoo message board I am not a member of Yahoo.
+ its free, and it takes 30 seconds, and you can play games & get financial reports. :)
+ this is great news but I think we need a few more details to make sure that Sylvan is really doing this. Can you give more information on where, who, when, why? Will Sylvan have a press release?
+ Sylvan Learning Centers is big here in Minnesota and my youngest boy went there for one year. could not afford more than that but they helped him deal with his learning disability and how he approached learning. that small adjustment on teaching him to learn proved essential years down the road when he went on to vo-tech (something his school advisers said he could not do) and graduated. I will send them a thank you card. A physical one, you know the paper kind, with a stamp and everything with a handwritten note. I will send it to the same branch my son went to. Yes indeed. thank you sylvan Learning Centers. I will recommend them at every opportunity.
+ I guess this makes you the reverend Donald Wildmon of Daily Kos. (minus any of the extremely negative connotations that metaphor may conjure up) Wow, when we start applying economic pressure, people really perk up, don't they?
+ I love you!"
+ It's Pit-Pat! But you can't have all that swearing -- it's offensive.
+ Can someone direct me to a current list of Sinclair advertisers. Thnaks.
+ http://www.boycottsbg.com/advertisers/default.aspx
+ Is anyone else having trouble getting to this site, or does anyone have a suggestion for why it may not be working. Yesterday I could get into it, today I cannot.
+ Advertiser Phone 1 Phone 2 Phone 3 Website Contact Email ApplebeeTMs International, Inc. (913) 967-4000 (913) 967-2718  http://www.applebees.com/ Carol DiRaimo, ca.diraimo@applebees.com Arby's 1-800-487-2729    Best Buy 1-888-BEST BUY 612-292-4000 612-291-1000  Betty Crocker 1-800-446-1898    Brinker International (972) 980-9917   http://www.brinker.com/  Brinker International    investor.relations@brinker.com Chili's Grill and Bar 515-226-1744 1-800-983-4637  http://www.chilis.com/ http://www.chilis.com/contact/ Circuit City 800-843-2489    Consolidated Credit Counseling Services, Inc. 1-800-320-9929   http://www.consolidatedcredit.org http://www.consolidatedcredit.org/feedback.asp Discount Tire (888) 774-6560 800-589-6789  http://www.discounttire.com/dtc/brochure/contact/contactUs.jsp  Dodge 1-800-992-1997    Domino's Pizza 734-930-3030   http://www.dominos.com/  Dunkin' Donuts 781-961-4020   http://dunkindonuts.com  Educate, Inc. (Sylvan) (410) 843-8000 fx?410 843-6145  http://www.educate-inc.com  Fazoli's 1-859-268-1668   http://www.fazolis.com/  GMC 1-800-462-8782    Great Earth Vitamins 1-800-284-8243   http://www.greatearth.com http://www.greatearth.com/contact_us.html ITT Tech (805) 520-7200   http://www.itt-tech.edu  JC Penny    http://www.jcpenny.com  Jim Barkley Toyota 828-667-8888   www.jimbarkleytoyota.com Johnson & Johnson 732-524-0400    Long John Silvers (502) 874-8200   http://www.ljsilvers.com/ http://www.ljsilvers.com/comments/default.htm Mile One Automotive 866-645-3663   http://www.mileone.com info@mileone.com NetZero 1-888-349-0029    Papa John's 1-502-261-7272t   http://www.papajohns.com/  Patties Panties (493)555-1293   http://www.pattyspanties.com  Pepsi-Co.    boardofdirectors@pepsi.com Pfizer, Inc. (212) 573-2323 fx: 212 5737851  http://www.pfizer.com mckinnell@pfizer.com Procter & Gamble 513-983-1100   http://www.pg.com/  Red Bull North America 781-961-4020   http://redbull.com http://www.redbull.com/extras/contact.jsp Rentway, Inc. 1-800-RENTWAY 814-455-5378  http://www.rentway.com http://www.rentway.com/contactus.asp SC Johnson Scrubbing Bubbles 1-800-494-4855 262-260-3709 262-260-4402  Select Comfort Corp. 763-551-7000   http://www.selectcomfort.com  Skyland Automotive 828-667-5213   http://www.skylandautomotive.com/ http://www.skylandautomotive.com/ Sonic (405) 225-5000 (816) 842-1500  http://www.sonicdrivein.com/business/newsroom/mediaContacts.jsp sonicpr@sonicdrivein.com Subway (203) 877-4281 (800) 888-4848  http://www.subway.com/subwayroot/Applications/CustServ/frmCustomerService.aspx  Taco Bell/Yum! Brnads Inc 502 874-2543 1-800-tacobell  http://www.yum.com Amy.Sherwood@Yum.Com Time Domain Inc. 888-826-8378 (Sinclair owns equity stake) http://www.timedomain.com/index2.html  Time Warner Road Runner of Rochester 585-756-1608   http://www.twrochester.com/contact.cfm http://www.twrochester.com/feedback.cfm Toyota Consumer Relations 800-331-4331 #3   http://www.toyota.com  Tri-Star Health Systems/HCA Mid-America 615-886-5000 615-886-4902  http://www.tristarhealth.com/ cheryl.chubbs@hcahealthcare.com Whataburger 361-878-0650  
+ Ive been explainingimplying that my words AND their responses/non-responses will be posted here - the "highest trafficked political blog in the US and the world." Honestly not certain it is ABSOLUTELY tops, but we've got alot of readers. Think this adds an edge or not?
+ they claim that they do not advertise on Sinclair (see upthread)
+ Maybe a denial of service? Or just too many people trying to find out what product to boycott?
+ It appears that AOL doesn't recognize the site but IE does.
+ I've tried deleting cookies, tried going to the IP directly (from address below). Nothing works.
+ I will look into it
+ it's the standard error whenever it can't find a page: The page cannot be displayed The page you are looking for is currently unavailable. The Web site might be experiencing technical difficulties, or you may need to adjust your browser settings. ------------------------------------------------- Please try the following: [standard stuff deleted for space] Cannot find server or DNS Error Internet Explorer 
+ I just noticed that. You can pick your nearest local market at the drop-down menu. 
+ I just called my brother who uses Sylvan for my nephew - and he said he would pull the kid out of Sylvan group. Unless I see written confirmation, I'm telling my brother to continue as planned. 
+ i assume, of course, that you have expressed your brother's intentions to sylvan as well, yeah? along with other posters, i am kinda skeptical until this is confirmed. people on the phone will say lots of things that don't necessarily pan out...
+ it seems to be working.
+ Remind advertisers that the ADL has rebuked these guys for comparing network editors to "Holocaust Deniers" Can anyone say, "He's claiming Jews control the media?"
+ A press release, anything? It'd be nice to keep a catalog of actions undertaken to stop Sinclair and their effect...
+ to ADL, but nothing of any response from anywhere in the media.
+ Here
+ That's what happens when you don't hit refresh often enough.
+ Since this is a front page story this seems the best place to post this. I think Ford needs to learn about customer power, and would appreciate anyone else helping to educate Ford about it. It's obvious that there isn't another Ford in my future. Ford Motor Company <crcfmc@customersupportctr.com> or go to this website. Here's the letter I sent to Ford: In the past I've owned Rangers, Fiestas and Festivas. I currently own a 96 Explorer which has given me 130,000 trouble-free miles, but is due for replacement soon. I probably would be interested in another Ford vehicle, BUT Ford's advertising dollars are currently supporting Sinclair Broadcasting TV operations. Sinclair refused to carry the ABC Nightline broadcast honoring US soldiers who died in Iraq because it was "too politcal". Now Sinclair is planning to force all its affiliates to run an anti-Kerry propaganda film just days prior to the Nov 2 election. You can spend your advertising dollars any way you choose, just like I can spend my car buying dollars any way I choose. I'll make sure that no part of my car purchase is going to a company that supports this kind of attempt to corrupt the US electoral process. Sincerely [badger] ------------------------------------------- Here's Ford's mealy-mouthed response: Dear [badger], Thank you for your recent e-mail. We appreciate your input regarding our advertising. Feedback from valued customers like you enable us to know what our customer needs are. We hope to use this information to improve our services and to enhance the loyalty of our customers. James, we believe one of the most effective ways to connect with customers and generate mass awareness of our products is through television advertising. We treat our purchase of commercial time as we do any other prime time, mainstream television program. By buying commercial time on top-rated shows, we are not making judgment on the specific content of the show but simply making an optimized attempt to reach our many customers through award-winning television programming. Ford Motor Company values the opinions and sensibilities of our customers worldwide and will continue to try to place advertising on programs that reach and appeal to our diverse customer base. According to Ford Motor Company Chairman, Bill Ford, "A good company delivers excellent products and services; a great one does all that and strives to make the world a better place." At Ford Motor Company, we consider the satisfaction of our customers as one of our most important objectives. If you have any other inquiries or concerns, please feel free to contact us and we will be happy to address them. Thank you for contacting Ford Motor Company. Sincerely, Kiesha Ford Motor Company Customer Relationship Center
+ ..okay, are they a "Good" or are they a "Great" company ? "A good company delivers excellent products and services; a great one does all that and strives to make the world a better place."
+ saw! Here's my letter to them: I just read your response to someone asking you to withhold your advertising from Sinclair Broadcasting. Would you please elaborate on this part of it: "According to Ford Motor Company Chairman, Bill Ford, 'A good company delivers excellent products and services; a great one does all that and strives to make the world a better place.'" What is it about supporting the possibly illegal certainly destructive broadcast of propaganda over the public airwaves that "make[s] the world a better place," or don't you claim to be a great company? Dean Smith Austin Texas
+ Folks, Ford is just now launching their new Hybrid Escape. They have been trying to enter this market for a long time. I'll wager money that their marketing tells them that the majority of buyers would tend to be on the left side of the dial. I, in fact, own a Prius and have been considering the Hybrid Escape as a replacement for our mini-van (15 MPG, sucks). Make sure you mention your consideration for a Hybrid Escape is dropping if they advertise on Sinclair. Their espoused values don't match yours obviously. - K
+ Left half of the dial. What company can afford to piss off HALF of its prospects?
+ If 48% of the likely voters plan on supporting Kerry, that certainly represents a large body of Americans. Too long have progressive viewpoints been missing from mainstream media sources. Thus the success of Air America. There is a huge pent up demand for media that represents our point of view, and much money to be made from it.
+ A LETTER TOO!
+ Yesterday I contacted a few of your dealers about purchasing a Ford Escape Hybrid, but since then I have learned that Ford supports Sinclair Broadcasting's extreme political agenda with its advertising dollars. I can't, in good conscience, let my dollars go towards perpetuating this kind of unfair (and possibly illegal) activity. This election is heated enough without having companies like Sinclair push as "news" blatantly partisan and biased "documentaries" just weeks before we are to head to the polls. If Ford chooses to support the broadcast of political propaganda, then I must take my business elsewhere. I'd rather wait for Honda's new Accord hybrid to be released next January than to let my hard-earned dollars go to support the likes of Sinclair. I don't doubt that others in the market for a hybrid car feel exactly the same way.
+ car? Isnt that backfiring in your face, sorta?
+ There are plenty of other hybrid cars out there to buy. Why not support a company (like HONDA) that doesn't purchase ads on Sinclair stations? Ford knows the market for their Escapes are lefties. If they want to sell to us, they have to play by our rules! Woohoo!
+ in an email to Ford - I have just read Ford's response to an email expressing concern about ties between Ford and Sinclair Broadcasting. It has been posted at dailykos.com, one of the highest trafficked political blogs in America and the world. You will be interested to know that while Ford "is not making judgment on the specific content of the show (during which it advertises), but simply making an optimized attempt to reach our many customers," the Anti-Defamation League is making these judgements. http://www.adl.org/media_watch/newspapers/20041011-WashPost.htm People are watching this story closely, choose your side wisely.
+ letter
+ Thank you!
+ I would bet that Ford is especially sensitive to the ADL issue.
+ maybe they should be next on our hit list... EVERYBODY e-mail them. They are a company that presents itself as having a great history of progressive involvement in their communities and concern for their workers. Make them put their money where their mouth is!
+ Explain to them that they need to be non-partisan. You don't want to be thinking about politics when shopping for a car, because if you do, Ford will lose out.
+ Dear Kiesha: Your response was both disappointing and unsatisfactory. I will no longer be considering or buying Ford products. Sincerely, [badger] but your point is a very good one. That's exactly what I want them to do with their advertising dollars. I'm just trying to stick the point and keep my emails short - I have a tendency to ramble.
+ I just replied to this letter that they sent me, and they sent me the exact same letter back. I have two Ford vehicles and I service them locally. I can't believe they don't even want to pretend as if they care what I say.
+ Ford has at least 100 million customers worldwide, at least 100,000 employees, 50,000 suppliers, hunderds of advertising contracts, etc. Oddly enough in the early days of corporate use of the Internet (1994 or so) Ford attempted to have every customer e-mail answered individually. Employees volunteered to write the responses - it was written up in the Wall Street Journal. What do you think their volume of e-mail is today? 100,000/day? 100,000/HOUR? If you want results from Ford, type it out on a manual typewriter, put it in an envelope, and mail it to the CEO (Bill Ford I believe) marked "personal". THAT might get some attention. An e-mail? Forget it. sPh
+ I used to reply to emails for a major company. Of course they sent a canned response -- when your job is to reply to literally thousands of emails a day, you cannot get to every customer without relying on a databank of macros. There's no other way to do it, especially considering most of the letters you get are idiotic. However, it doesn't mean our complaints don't get through. When I worked at [major news outlet], I'd track how many letters we got on a specific issue. If there were suddenly hundreds on the same thing, I'd edit out a representative sample of the most articulate and forward them to my boss. You can get into a back and forth with a harried rep, sometimes it'll get you a more considered personal response, but mostly it is force of numbers that gets the issue up to management.
+ Make sure you put in the subject line "Advertising with Sinclair" or "Issue with Sinclair". They may be sending you canned responses but I bet they are keeping track of emails coming in. The easier it is for them to find the email from a glance of the inbox, the better.
+ National may not care, but the local dealership just might. If we can get communication up the internal Ford chain, it will be much more powerful. And, just because you get a formatted reply doesn't mean they haven't read the email. They've read it and bucketed it. I'm sure they get a lot of complaints, most of which are isolated so they have a generic email reply form. If they get enough on one specific complaint, the will be more likely to respond with specificity.
+ As these come in, can people post contact info so that: a) others can verify it b) we can thank them Advertiser list is here: http://www.boycottsbg.com/advertisers/Default.aspx
+ Remember in your emails to let these companies know that one of the largest civil rights groups, the Anti-Defamation League has CONDEMED Sinclair for anti-Jewish remarks. This is very important and represents a real win for us. No advertiser will want to do business with a racist company!
+ has condemned the insensitive remarks Sinclair made this morning about the Holocaust on CNN." His remarks weren't anti-Jewish. They were, however, grossly insensitive. You can phrase it in such a way that still gets your point across.
+ At what point are these clowns actually helping us?
+ nevertheless, I don't want to take a chance. Kerry is doing just fine right now. Without a smear campaign by Sinclair.
+ ...condemmed racist and tied to ShrubCo thru this movie/ad. Smooth move helping your guy, Sinclair execs.
+ You got em!
+ No criticism of you intended, and I appreciate the history behind your sig, but Henry couldn't pay me enough to buy another one of his cars. See my post above.
+ that this is one of the few economic principles that has stood the test of time. When mechanics are well paid, the economy does well. Another is TANSTAAFL There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch. I did see your post and am currently sweating paying off my F-150.
+ We run a business and while we don't have any employess, a lot of our vendors are other small businesses. We don't haggle over prices with our vendors or try to cut their prices to the barest minimum because it's in our interest that they stay in business and be able to continue to ship us quality goods and provide us good service. The funny thing is, when we absolutely need a rock bottom price for one of our customers, we can get it from our vendors without haggling - we just ask politely.
+ This is a headline from the local Minnesota Christian Chronicle. The article begins, "Have you driven a Ford lately? If so, you've been supporting homosexual rights." It goes on to tell how Ford has been working to increase the number of GLBT workers in the automotive fields, and is the only automobile manufacturer and the largest corporation to get a perfect score on the 2004 Human Rights Campaign Corporate Equality Index. I sure hope they'll drop their ads on Sinclair -- I'd like to buy my next car from them -- thanks to the Minnesota Christian Chronicle. Can't wait to see who the Chronicle tells me who not to vote for.
+ YES!
+ somewhere else, but can we get a listing of the local station advertisers. The ones who advertise on the local news programs. This where it can hurt the local stations directly.
+ I asked about this earlier, since the local advertisers are the most likely to call the affiliates.  Just go here http://www.boycottsbg.com/advertisers/ and switch to the local markets in the pull-down menu.
+ I asked about this earlier, since the local advertisers are the most likely to call the affiliates.  Just go here http://www.boycottsbg.com/advertisers/ and switch to the local markets in the pull-down menu. If someone is having trouble accessing the boycott site post your city of interest and someone will copy the links here.
+ Having problems getting the site here....My city of interest is Portland Maine. The station is WGME.
+ Market Information:  WGME 1335 Washington Ave Portland, ME 04103 (207)797-1313 Advertisers: Lee Auto (website: http://www.leeauto.com ) New England Subaru Dealers (website: http://www.newenglandsubaru.com  email: howarde@snemail.com) vikingkitty's deli (phone:  503-997-0509)
+ Thank you for bringing this to my attention. This is the second email I have received on this subject today alone. I am reviewing this situation closely with my law firm's marketing consultant. I can assure you that I am not pleased that such a documentary is being aired under force by the Sinclair parent organization. Thanks again. Best regards, Joe Bornstein jbornstein@joebornstein.com
+ it's just the "specified server cannot be found" box in IE.
+ There's a rumor on the Yahoo Board that Best Buy has also pulled their advertising. Any confirmation?
+ would be a surprise. Best Buy is the most insensitive corporation on the planet. We're all very lucky they don't ship oil.
+ I just got off the phone with the marketing director for HER Realtors here in Columbus. She told me that they have pulled their ads from WSYX and WTTE, the two Sinclair-owned stations here! Yay!
+ Let's turn the Sinclair situation to our advantage - exploit the draft fears. Time to stop being nice. See that movie, parents? YOUR children will BE the tortured POWs if Bush is elected. See this draft flyer: "Ready to take a bullet for Halliburton?" http://www.bigpath.net/politics/Draft/DraftStart.html Others: NEXT YEAR, INSTEAD OF CRAMMING FOR EXAMS, YOU COULD BE FIGHTING FOR YOUR LIFE COULD THIS BE SPRING BREAK 2005? other good stuff at www.bigpath.net .
+ concerts for change Stop Sinclair: Action Alert According to recent news reports* Sinclair Broadcast Inc. has mandated that their 62 affiliate TV stations across the country air an hour long anti-Kerry documentary a mere 10 days before the election. 36 hours ago we put up an online petition asking Sinclair not to air this piece of partisan propaganda in the midst of a Presidential election. So far over 17,000 people have signed the petition. Today we ask you to support our efforts and sign the petition http://www.stopsinclair.org/index.php
+ And sent it off to 5 friends. It's up to almost 23,000 signatures as of right now. Man, I actually have a feeling that we're going to win this one...YYYYEEEEAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!
+ Ohio Talking Points: HER Realtors pull ads in Columbus! by JBLIII [Subscribe] Tue Oct 12th, 2004 at 16:57:04 GMT I just got off the phone with the marketing director for HER Realtors here in Columbus. She told me they have pulled their ads from WSYX and WTTE, the local Sinclair stations. This is huge! HER is one of the biggest advertisers. Keep it up!
+ I will email HER and let them know we're house hunting (we are) and that we will be watching to make sure that they aren't airing on the Fox and ABC sinclair stations here.
+ We should email Sylvan and say thanks for being a stand up company.
+ I wouldn't reward anyone until they issue a press release. It's easy for a guy on one end of the phone to tell you one thing and then deny it later, it's another to have an official press release.
+ Call them and tell them thanks. Remember that a lot of homeschoolers use Sylvan and the homeschooling networks have a lot of neo-cons who are very mobilized. They need to hear from us that we approve. Just call your local Sylvan and say THANKS!
+ I'm a homeschooler ( a liberal one, obviously) and I can tell you that the fundie homeschoolers wouldn't DREAM of using Sylvan - way too secular. The fundie curriculum of choice is BJU Press (Bob Jones University) - so I think Sylvan will be okay. But we should thank them anyways.
+ I hate to ever lump homeschoolers together. My bad. Thanks for the kind correction and keep up the good work. By the way, read the Republican platform on homeschooling and also go to http://www.theocracywatch.org and see how the Bush machine uses homeschoolers as the attack on public education. It is complex and ugly, and you can be sure they count you in their numbers when they release their figures about homeschoolers. There might be an action alert in there somewhere.
+ The original poster has NOT confirmed this to everyone's satisfaction. Believe me, I hope this is true but can we get confirmation? I want to reward companies that pull their ads too but I DON'T want to reward those that say one thing and do another. Everyone PLEASE, read every post and lets not get overexcited without confirmation.  And the minute we get confirmation of pulled ads, definitely post it on Yahoo's investor board for Sinclair. Believe me, even small fry investors read those and they will start to short the stock on even a wisp of a rumor. No matter what the big guys do rumors will put downward pressure on the share price.  just my .02 (oh and GREAT news on the columbus station losing ad revenue. If Ohio isn't ground zero then I don't know what is!!! Great job people!)
+ This is what cyber-friends are for. Thanks.
+ but in the words of John Cusack to an inebriated Jeremy Pivin, "You must chill!!"
+ Told them to forward it too. Feels so good. The best part is that we be just gettin' started folks. Now imagine our new found power used every day against the Republicans. mmmmm good.
+ If Sylvan and Best buy are pulling, how long before more advertisers start yanking? and where are those confirmations?
+ Sylvan and Sinclair are two of the more prominent businesses based in Baltimore, which is not exactly known for being the center of power Sinclair's shenannigans are exatly why the FCC needs to role back the number of stations any broadcast group can own. Imagine the power that Clear Channel could have if every radio station they own was ordered to run a series of "documentaries" on Bush every rush hour for the final 10 days of the election. It's scary as hell.
+ ClearChannel already IS a Rethug spin machine. They play robomusic and turn over the bully pulpit to the Rush Rethugs each and every day.
+ is dumping some stations around the country with loser formats and replacing them with Air America. Money talks. I'm listening to Air America on a Clear Channel station as I type this. It's a huge success. (And Sean Hannity is gone from our market.)
+ That is something valuable to keep in mind. Money is what talks, so maybe we consumers have more power than we think.
+ between airing topical shows (like Limbaugh) as entertainment and airing editorial opinion as documentary. The fact that Sinclair is airing the film without commercial interruption means they view it as being in the public interest. In actuality, it's a free, one-hour commercial for Bush.
+ I currently own a Ford F150, that I am about to trade in for a new one, because I love it so much. Now, I learned that you refuse to pull your ads on Sinclair TV stations despite the company being labeled anti-semitic by the Anti-Defamation League and despite their heavy handed conservative politics. If you do not pull your advertising from all Sinclair stations, I will be forced to go to Dodge for my new vehilce. They are broadcasting a political sleaze piece on John Kerry and calling it news it is time for advertisers to say we will not tolerate this abuse of our broadcast spectrums and I expect Ford as an environmentally conscious and responsible corporation to do the same.
+ Let's move this up their chain. Call your local Ford dealer and if they advertise, tell them to pull it and let them know you will not be into their dealership unless they put pressure on headquarters. Their margins are razor thin, so thin may be even more effective.
+ you guys are ruthless. i love it.
+ As I noted in a post above, I was in the market for the new Ford Escape Hybrid. In response to a dealer's e-mail offering me a test drive: Thanks, but I've changed my mind. I have learned that Ford supports Sinclair Broadcasting with its advertising dollars, which means that Ford supports the airing of anti-Kerry propaganda masquerading as "news." I can't let my hard-earned dollars be used to fund Sinclair's extreme political agenda. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A25406-2004Oct11.html Thanks for your time.
+ Got a follow-up call from another dealer about a test drive I was supposed to do yesterday, and I told him I wasn't going to buy a Ford unless Ford pulled its advertising dollars from Sinclair. He seemed a little incredulous, but was gracious after I explained my position. This is painful! I was REALLY excited about getting a hybrid, and with a kid and one on the way, we were really interested in the Escape -- the first hybrid SUV. And the Lexus hybrid SUV is not only out of my league, but also manufactured by Toyota, another advertiser! Arrrrrgh.
+ In big blue states we should be dragging Ford dealers into this, even with no Sinclair stations (e.g. Seattle). Let's get all 50 states of dealerships calling on HQ to back off from Sinclair.
+ It's listed as one.
+ Guess I will go after them too. COuld have had my business....
+ Half an hour of phone calls can MAKE A HUGE DIFFERENCE!
+ Can someone please post the database of advertisers link again? The link Kos posted yesterday is coming up as a question mark.
+ http://www.boycottsbg.com/advertisers/
+ I can't get anything from that domain. It all comes up 404.
+ Thanks alot.
+ Till DNS kicks in, can someone post the IP address?
+ The ip address is 69.44.62.162 www.boycottsbg.com * WARNING - GEEK SPEAK * Note, due to the server being used, you will need to put that in your hosts file, or the server will check the 69.44.62.162 header and not match the site.
+ thanks!
+ The root servers update every 15 minutes now (used to be 24 hours). This should solve everyone's issues.
+ Sinclair Broadcasting's email address is comments@sbgi.net. I have written an email informing the company that I will be calling and writing all advertisers in my local market, Alabama, after I leave work. Anyone who has time to do so may wish to send an email regarding his or her market. Lessening revenues will obtain the company's attention. 
+ The DNC has listed the phone numbers of all the local stations here. Josh Marshall has an excellent suggestion to call the station and talk to the SALES MANAGER and let him/her know that you'll be calling all their local advertisers -- he suggests you have the advertiser names when you talk to the sales manager.
+ I mentioned this a couple days ago on another Sinclair post. Hit local advertisers. Or, to phrase differently, call the sales manager at your local Sinclair station, and tell them you're encouraging a boycott of (read your laundry list of local advertisers) because of the Stolen Honor stuff. Apologize profusely, but say it has to be done.
+ Hit auto dealers. They make up the bulk of local advertisers. They also trade on their 'honest, family' reputation, and being associated with a station whose most prominent corporate face has just been condemned by the Anti-Defamation League will probably have a pretty quick impact.
+ Since this is one advertiser who, if Bush used their services, could help him immensely with his debate prep. Ouch.
+ Drudge has text up now saying "FCC ISSUES STATEMENT ON SINCLAIR AIRING OF ANTI-KERRY BROADCAST..." but no link yet. If Drudge is right I wonder what the FCC will be saying later today?
+ "Sinclair Broadcasting is doing nothing wrong. I am being paid to say so. By the way, start getting mad about Janet Jackson again."
+ below the fold nevertheless... Commissioner Michael J. Copps reacted to reports that Sinclair Broadcast Group will preempt more than 60 local stations across the country to air an overtly political program in the days prior to the Presidential election. Copps stated: "This is an abuse of the public trust. And it is proof positive of media consolidation run amok when one owner can use the public airwaves to blanket the country with its political ideology -- whether liberal or conservative. Some will undoubtedly question if this is appropriate stewardship of the public airwaves. This is the same corporation that refused to air Nightline's reading of our war dead in Iraq. It is the same corporation that short-shrifts local communities and local jobs by distance-casting news and weather from hundreds of miles away. It is a sad fact that the explicit public interest protections we once had to ensure balance continue to be weakened by the Federal Communications Commission while it allows media conglomerates to get even bigger. Sinclair, and the FCC, are taking us down a dangerous road." 
+ Sorry for cross-posting, but there are so many Sinclair diaries and posts now that I have to hit several to get this across: Contact a local reporter or two at Sinclair's competitors in TV and newspapers. Give them a summary of what actions you've been taking. CNN reported on Sinclair's proposed airing of the movie extensively last night. Several papers are picking up on it, including an AP story. Let local reporters know what local people are saying to local advertisers -- that makes it hit home! League of Women Voters media database: http://www.capwiz.com/lwv/dbq/media Rapid Response Network has been putting together focused alerts on Sinclair: http://www.rapidresponsenetwork.org
+ For this film?
+ We need to own the spin, and control the flow of intormation about this film. CNN and major dailies already have stories about Sinclair and 'Stolen Honor. Steph, if we can get ahead of the curve we can either force them not to air it or, if they do air it, make people realize what it is, partisan conservative propaganda.
+ There have been several comments here asking it be verified and the only thing I can say is they called and left a message that the advertising will be stopped. However, I thought I better call just to be certain of this and they backtracked a bit saying the advertising will be stopped in this market and all the centers in the Tampa area had sent a demand letter asking for this. So before anyone blows this up to be a national movement the best I can say is that it may only affect the area in which I live, and the same things must be done all over. As for verification the only thing I can say is if the advertising is pulled then we'll know.
+ (This mostly duplicates my post upthread, but it seemed appropriate here) I talked to Wendy in the media department at Educate Inc., the parent company, and she said that the national campaign does not make politically based buying decisions, and buys based on networks and markets that reach its target audience rather than on who owns the station. The national organization has not pulled its advertising. However, she also said there are co-op ad buys and the national office doesn't know whether one of these may have been pulled. Anybody care to explore co-op ad buys in Florida?
+ I called a local center, who after hearing my question, referred me to their corporate office (800-627-4276). I said that I'd heard some wonderful news about Sylvan Learning Centers and just wanted to confirm it. The operator transferred me to the voice mail of someone in advertising, and I left what I hope was an upbeat message, saying I'd heard the good news about Sylvan withdrawing its advertising support from Sinclair, briefly mentioning why this is an issue, saying that all of us at dailykos were wanting confirmation before offering our support to the company, and asking if they had a press release they were issuing to confirm it. I may not get a call back, but if I do, I'll post something. Everyone I spoke with was very polite. It was hard for me to tell if anyone had heard of the issue or not. The operator did say she'd transfer me to advertising, and then said "But they probably won't pick up," then transferred me to someone specific. I couldn't help hoping that they were already getting plenty of Sinclair-related calls!
+ But Sylvan isn't on the national market list, at least not now. This means that they are targeting a specific market, which means, if true, that you wouldn't have to bug their other regions, as they won't know what you are talking about. Then again, they could have been taken off the national list because of our chatter. 
+ here
+ i added a couple bits of info. dkosopedia is cool. hope i used it correctly. but feel free to scold me publicly if I didn't :)
+ Cool!
+ Call Sen. McCain and ask the Chariman of the Senate Commerce Committee what his position on Sinclair is (202) 224-2235 This issue may indeed be a "perfect storm" for McCain. It involves exploitation of POWs for a political purpose, disregard for campaign finance laws, Rove smear tactics, and misuse of public airwaves. As of 1:30pm, his office was stating he was not taking any position on this issue.
+ Hon. Senator McCain, As I'm sure you are aware, Sinclair Broadcasting is mandating that its affiliate TV stations broadcast a defamatory so-called documentary during prime-time prior to the Presidential Election in order to push their right-wing agenda. This is the same Sinclair that refused to air a full listing of Iraq casualties from Nightline that honored our brave soldiers who gave the ultimate sacrifice. Clearly, they are abusing their FCC license by essentially making an in-kind contribution to the Bush campaign in airing this documentary. I'm very concerned about this issue, especially in the light of continued media consolidation. As Chairman of the Senate Commerce Committee I am most interested in your viewpoint regarding this situation. You have been known to express your beliefs regardless of party affiliation and we look to you for leadership in denouncing this type of overt propagandizing of the public air waves. Will you Senator speak out against this travesty, the kind of politicization of public channels that you too have been the victim of? Thanks for your time.
+ I don't know why he gets touted so much around here as a "man of principle." He cast his lot with the thugs in the White House a long time ago.
+ but sometimes McCain does play the moderate and come out in the middle and that makes right-leaners take a second to think about the issue (must hurt though). Frankly, I don't know how he or Colin Powell live with themselves. - K
+ I sent a letter to the following advertisers: 1.) Applebees: ca.diraimo@applebees.com; 2.) Brinker International (owns Chilli's and other restaurants):investor.relations@brinker.com; 3.) Circuit City: investor_media@circuitcity.com; 4.) Corona: procermexlt@corona-extra.com; 5.) Dr. Pepper: consumer_relations@dpsu.com I will send more tonight, I am at work. Please hit these advertisers I have already hit above. Here is my letter: To Whom It May Concern: I enjoy your product quite a bit and find myself a customer of yours at least several times per month. However, I recently learned that you advertise with Sinclair Broadcast Group, which is forcing its affiliates to pre-empt their normal broadcasting to air a piece of anti-John Kerry propaganda ten days before the presidential election. I'm writing to encourage you to pull your advertising from Sinclair to let the company and the country know that you do not approve of propaganda. Please be advised, numerous members of my family also feel the same way and as an active member of political groups that meet regularly and share the same political opinions as I, I plan to advise them of your advertising on Sinclair as well. Please know I will withhold my patronage of your business and will encourage my friends and family to do the same unless I hear back from you that you will pull all advertising from Sinclair stations if they follow through on their unfair plan to improperly provide one side an advantage in a Presidential election. My understanding is, this effort is starting to organize on political discussion blogs and you will be receiving numerous lettes from people all across the country on this boycott. I would hope you would remove yourself from this controversy by discontinuing advertising with Sinclair. Thank you for your consideration and I look forward to hearing back from you. GDoyle
+ As of a few minutes ago, there weren't any Sinclair advertisers that I actually patronized. *sigh* Off to write my letter to Dr Pepper..
+ Raw Story has a developing story about a military contractor that has put pressure on Sinclair to air this bullshit? Does anybody know anything about this?
+ Sylvan is still on air at KGAN in Cedar Rapids. Let's try LOCAL companies and franchises too, such as Skogman Realty, Tegler Design Center, Medicap Pharmacy, Barix Clinics. Car dealers, grocery stores (Hy-Vee) Tom Riley Law firm. Riley is a longtime area lawyer, made nationally famous in the Toxic Shock/tampon cases. Until recently he was a lifelong Republican, this year he changed to a Democrat. His daughter, Sarah, appears on the local news occasionally in a "ask the lawyer" segment.
+ It may take some time for a company like Sylvan or Sinclair to get the word out. I've seen campaign ads up to 2 days after Election Day.
+ pulling the media contract - and having the ads actually come down are two different steps. My guess is it will take several days for any noticable change to occur on the air
+ Hit LOCAL advertisers. It's the most important revenue stream for any station.
+ Can you post the list of Cedar Rapids advertisers? I can't get the site to work. Thanks much!
+ 1st Avenue Chrysler Inc (319) 366-7111   AR-Jay Center 1-800-728-5885 319-393-5885 info@ar-jay.com BankIowa 800-433-0285 319-395-9100 BankIowa@BankIowa.com Bayer - Aleve 800-331-4536   Benefiber 800-452-0051   Best Buy 888-BEST BUY   Bristol-Myers Squibb Cadillac 800-333-4CAD    CapitalOne 800-955-7070 webinfo@capitalone.com Cedar Rapids Lumber Co. 319.361.0467 Cedar Rapids Rough Riders (hockey)(319) 247-0340 crhockey@roughridershockey.com Dekalb Seed(314) 694-1000 Denny's Muffler Center(319) 363-5245 Denver Mattress Co. 319.373.5314 DHL 800-CALL-DHL  Ford 800-392-3673    Ford 800-392-3673   Foster's Heating & Air Conditioning(319) 377-6325 Furniture Row (515)-276-0415  FurnitureRow Outlet 515.276.0415 515.254.1788 515.276.0859fax  General Mills/Pillsbury - Totino's 800-775-4777  Good's 309-852-5656 309-854-5306 goods@goodsfurniture.com Good's Furniture 309.852.5656   Goodfeet (866) 893-8880 (319) 294-8880  goodfeetwi@aol.com Govert Chevrolet-GM Certified Used Vehicles 319.223.5141 Graphics 2000 702-798-6181   Website gr2000@lvcm.com Green Valley Cabinets 319.545.6360   Inches-A-Weigh (319) 395-7111 iwireless 888-684-0500  888-550-4497  www.iwireless.com/about_email.asp Lebeda Mattress Factory marketing@lebeda.com Levitra 888-825-5249   Lynch Ford (319) 895-8500 lynchford@yahoo.com Ma and Pa's Construction Co (319) 364-4407 Maquoketa Valley Electric Cooperative 800-927-6068319-462-3542 mvec@mvec.com Menards  Nexium 800-236-9933 Perkins Restaurants 877-325-7881    Pfizer - Rolaids 212-733-2323    Randy Kuehl Honda 1-800-297-1995,(319) 393-5700  Skogman Realty 319-366-6427 319-297-7550 319-363-8286 cskogman@skogman.com Slumberland(319) 294-5000 651-482-7500  feedback@slumberland.com Tegeler Design and Remodeling 1-800-488-1983  Theisen's 563-556-4738   Website info@theisens.com Tylenol 800-962-5357   Windex 800-494-4855  
+ ...my letters. I own stock in Best Buy and Pepsi, so that should add weight. I sent the letters to investor relations. We'll see what comes out of it!
+ off I go to write a letter.
+ Kerry Senior Advisor Chad Clanton to SINCLAIR Broadcasting: 'They better hope we don't win' [said on FOX NEWS DAYSIDE]... It's way long overdue that we developed a killer instinct.
+ Thanks for pointing it out. I love that quote. It's so BADASS.
+ This is exactly what they're pissing themselves about.
+ When you contact advertisers, tell them that not only will they lose your business if they run ads on the Sinclair stations, but that you'll push more business their way if they pull their ads. And then follow through--make sure the companies that really do the right thing see the reward. The key point is that you shouldn't restrict yourself to using only half your leverage as a consumer--you can patronize the good as well as boycott the bad.
+ Please see: http://www.dkosopedia.com/index.php/Sinclair_Broadcast_Group#Advertiser_Responses
+ It would be good to be a bit cautious. Clearly this is an extrordinary case, but the club will be pick up by the right for the most trivial, as was the case when Clinton was beat on by Ken Starr abusing the special prosecutor laws. Having started down this path, which I agree is necessary, be prepared to defend others when they are abused by the right.
+ According to Yahoo's message board, ETrade predicts Sinclair's stock could go as low as $6.70 by the time the market closes. It's already dropped 4 cents today after dropping 12 yesterday. And according to one post on Yahoo Finance, this might actually be a $3 stock based on P/E ratios. The company was already performing badly this year ... concerns about debt. And the Smith brothers have been dumping stock like mad this year--$23 million.  Even if this Sylvan story isn't true, the market has already spoken on this decision.
+ Stock price is up 5 cents as of 2:15 EDT.
+ short covering, also institutions won't dump right away or all at once or they lose money. If you have a big position you are careful. Somebody might be hedging or somebody might be shoring up the price.
+ I love when a plan comes together! What about picketing? Anyone from the Milwaukee area interested in paying a friendly visit to the Channel 18/24 building? I'll wear my Nixon mask and carry a sign that says SINCLAIR = GOP TOOL.
+ FCC COMMISSIONER STATEMENT ON SINCLAIR AIRING OF ANTI-KERRY SHOW Tue Oct 12 2004 13:39:02 ET FCC COMMISSIONER COPPS CRITICIZES SINCLAIR CORPORATE DECISION TO PREEMPT LOCAL STATIONS FOR POLITICAL BROADCAST Commissioner Michael J. Copps reacted to reports that Sinclair Broadcast Group will preempt more than 60 local stations across the country to air an overtly political program in the days prior to the Presidential election. Copps stated: "This is an abuse of the public trust. And it is proof positive of media consolidation run amok when one owner can use the public airwaves to blanket the country with its political ideology -- whether liberal or conservative. Some will undoubtedly question if this is appropriate stewardship of the public airwaves. This is the same corporation that refused to air Nightline's reading of our war dead in Iraq. It is the same corporation that short-shrifts local communities and local jobs by distance-casting news and weather from hundreds of miles away. It is a sad fact that the explicit public interest protections we once had to ensure balance continue to be weakened by the Federal Communications Commission while it allows media conglomerates to get even bigger. Sinclair, and the FCC, are taking us down a dangerous road."  END
+ Wouldn't it be perfect if the FCC starts cracking down on these media megopolies in response to Sinclair's stunt? Clearly Sinclair abused its market power, and illustrated nicely for the FCC and everyone else the dangers of consolidating this kind of power in one set of hands. This is way more dangerous to our democratic society than exposed boobs!
+ Tell them to listen to Michael Copps (who has been the dissentor from positive FCC opinions on Sinclair- search for Sinclair references at http://www.fcc.gov ) Chairman Michael K. Powell: Michael.Powell@fcc.gov Commissioner Kathleen Q. Abernathy: Kathleen.Abernathy@fcc.gov Commissioner Michael J. Copps: Michael.Copps@fcc.gov Commissioner Kevin J. Martin: KJMWEB@fcc.gov Commissioner Jonathan S. Adelstein: Jonathan.Adelstein@fcc.gov
+ In additon to Mr. Copps remarks - also handy to reference former Commission Chairperson Reed Hunt - follow the link to Josh Marshall's Talking Points Memo - http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/ Josh is all over this and has a number of good entries, including a letter from Mr. Hunt (scroll down) Mr. Hunt says (in part) Why is this important... Because in a large, pluralistic information society democracy will not work unless electronic media distribute reasonably accurate information and also competing opinions about political candidates to the entire population. Certainly, for the overwhelming number of voters this year, controlling impressions of the candidates for President are obtained from television And it can't be emphasised enough - let's be civil - Josh says it well here: And one other point about tactics and decency, which overlap in this case. Please don't be rude or hostile. Be firm. Make clear that you're serious. And make your feelings known. But remember that the advertiser in question probably didn't know anything about this until today or maybe yesterday. And the person you'll actually be talking to at the station, and even more so with the advertiser, is as likely as not to be a Kerry supporter. What Sinclair is doing is egregious. But if you start making calls you'll be talking to a lot of folks who don't even know what's going on with all this and certainly aren't directly responsible for it.
+ and it feels pretty good to see that letters can have an effect. I quoted most of Reed Hundt's (former FCC chariman) letter on the subject right to them. Love the line where he says what he would do if he was still head of the FCC.
+ http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/week_2004_10_10.php#003649
+ I sent the commissioners the following note. Now it is your turn! ----------------------------------------------------------------- At least one of you has the proper American perspective on this issue. Please listen to Commissioner Copps and intervene. You are collectively in charge of one of the most vital organs in the American body of liberty and justice. While I sometimes agree, sometimes disagree, with your decisions, this issue is of vital importance. If you let us down, where can we turn but to the streets? The results of an unfair election will not be accepted by the American people, so you have to do everything you can to insure that the communication aspect of the race is as fair as you can make it. This isn't about corporate media, conglomerates, cartels or anything like that. It is about the sanctity of our electoral process. Put aside political differences and get this situation fixed. It is what you are paid to do, and more, it is your absolute responsibility as citizens of our great nation.
+ A Pittsburgh Sinclair station has an online poll asking about running the lie-umentary.
+ seeing that other question: Are you one of the millions who read the Davinci Code? When did Pennsylvania go right? Does Sciafe own Sinclaire? or a part? that polling question is so leading its sick...not did you read brown's DaV Code? but are you one of the MILLIONS who read it. YiKeS good guys up at this time 60 some to 30 some
+ The same poll has appeared on Sinclair affiliates' websites in Florida and one other state (MN?). I freeped them this morning, and they both had the exact same questions... DaVinci code, etc. Sinclair must be sponosring the poll. Arrrggghhhhhh!
+ It looks like some of these stations are planning on mentioning the results of this poll in today's newscast. It might be worth a concerted effort to freep. I'm getting an error message when I go to the Pittsburgh site. It looks like the primary server database can't handle the volume.  Looks like a Perl Script that could be plugged into any website. Here's the code for you techy people to decipher.. "<td class="copy"> <form action="/template/ssi_pl/qod.pl" method="POST" name=""> <input type="hidden" name="redirect" value="/poll/qod_results.shtml"> The Pittsburgh newstation's url is named http://www.wpgh53.com/pittsburgh_pa/"
+ so far, that Penn. saying have 70% saying "no". Keep it up.
+ they've changed the question to "should Kerry respond to the charges made in the Documentary?" Bait & switch--an old CNN poll tactic to raise their hits & justify their web ad pricing.
+ Notice the high volume and coinciding decline in stock value of the past few days. Not a good sign for Sinclair. 
+ Looks like it's starting to bounce back now, though... :/
+ Keep up the pressure.
+ That was midday. The stock is actually down slightly for the day (click on image above and select "day" in the pulldown menu). Keep it up.
+ from last night, because it's got all the background information of who these Sinclair people are and what their political ties have been. The Sinclair Broadcasting Group, Explored It doesn't have the new stuff about Holocaust denial, etc., -- please those things in as you see fit. It's important for people who don't know the history of Sinclair to understand exactly why we're making such a big deal of this. Also note that it isn't just "like" a SBVFT ad -- the documentary is produced by the same, now-merged organization, run by SBVFT's Roy Hoffmann. Please, please add links to other useful information in the comments of that diary so that it can become as comprehensive as possible.
+ I missed in spite of obsessively reading dKos.
+ Peter B. Lewis is CEO of Progressive Corporation, listed as a local Sinclair advertiser. It would be uncharaceristic of him to tolerate Sinclair's nonsense, so I am about to contact his office. Peter B. Lewis President & Chief Executive Officer The Progressive Corporation 6300 Wilson Mills Road Mayfield Village, OH 44143-2109 Phone: (440) 446-7676 Fax: (440) 446-7088
+ be nice to these folks - they're on our side - let them know by all means but don't be mean.
+ about this myself.
+ Peter Lewis is Chairman, no longer CEO, but his number still works.
+ Peter is a stand-up billionaire. He fights for what he believes in, and has worked damn hard to turn the tiny company he inherited into one of the giants of the American insurance market. Peter himself has given to a lot of great causes, from museums to schools to the ACLU, with his basic intent of being broke when he dies (his children are already well provided for.)  He also gave a considerable sum of money with his friend George Soros to found ACT, and has done so publically. Compare this to the millions pouring through 501(c) type organizations for the Repubs (or the ads against McCain, now known to have been sponsored by the Wiley family.)  Inform him, don't berate him. And if you have any ideas for a good liberal think tank, Peter would be a great guy to talk too. Just don't go to him with anything poorly concieved, he'll rip you to shreds. And don't go with anything less than $1 million or if you don't want him involved, he won't be interested either.
+ Peter Lewis gave millions to ACT. He was the other name cited in the same breath as George Soros. Gently, follks...
+ A local wingnut posted the following: " Re: Sinclair As long as it hurts Kerry, the loss of advertising revenue is worth it." I told him I was going to repost his quote here in the hope that this kind of antipathy will remind and inspire people to get out and DO something. Prove me right!!! Frank
+ From Gadflyer.com, some large Sinclair food and beverage advertisers... Applebees (ca.diraimo@applebees.com), Corona Beer (procermexlt@corona-extra.com), Macaroni Grill, Chili's Restaurants (investor.relations@brinker.com), Dr. Pepper, 7-Up (consumer_relations@dpsu.com), Pepsi Cola, Mountain Dew (boardofdirectors@pepsi.com), Sonic Drive-in Restaurants (sonicpr@sonicdrivein.com), Proctor & Gamble -- Pringles, Eagle Snacks, Folgers (Talbot.cg@pg.com), Taco Bell (Amy.Sherwood@Yum.com). Sic'em!
+ And after Democrats patronize them because they don't contribute to Republicans?
+ Plagiarize! That's what intend to do with success stories like these and put them here Unless of course you beat me to it!
+ THIS NEEDS TO BE TOLD TO THE INVESTORS!!! Kos put up contacts for the institutional investors in Sinclair.. THIS is what will scare the shit out of them. Seeing advertisers pulling will move them far more than letters alone will, keep up the pressure, but this HAS TO BE RELIED TO THE INVESTORS THAT ADVERTISERS ARE PULLING OUT. THIS NEEDS TO BE RELIED TO THE CONTACTS BELOW: Top institutional investors: Earnest Partners SHARES HELD: 4,946,278 Gabelli Asset Management Co (gamco) SHARES HELD: 3,640,000 Westfield Capital Management Co SHARES HELD: 2,616,950 Morgan Stanley Investment Management SHARES HELD: 2,526,303 Neuberger Berman SHARES HELD: 2,266,809 Putnam Investment Mgmt SHARES HELD: 2,081,861 Perry Corp SHARES HELD: 1,911,452 Barclays Global Investors Intl SHARES HELD: 1,801,161 Blackrock IncSHARES HELD: 1,428,435 Janus Capital Corp
+ in the above mentioned Dkosopedia article (or post the source HTML with the relevant URLS so I can plunk it in the article more easily) Thanks!
+ Added to the the DKospedia page.
+ your own pension plan. And if your state treasurer is a Dem especially (but not only), contact them on your state pension investments.
+ Contacted them with a friendly note that their shareholders shouldn't have to suffer for Sinclair's bad decisions.  Thanks for the links. Mobilization is a wonderous thing.
+ You might want to advise your contact that beyond simply contacting Sinclair advertisers, you also intend to put up a web site promoting the boycott of Sinclair advertisers. As most people here likely know, putting up small site is quite easy and inexpensive. You can structure it for local, regional or even national reach. All the links you need are found right here, in this thread. I doubt these investment firms will relish the idea of something like this being organized nationwide as an ongoing promotional initiative. Just a thought, a keep it legal.
+ Called Janus and spoke to 4 levels of people and told them I was closing my kids education accounts. They are concerned, and tried to convince me to change my mind. They are very aware of this movement.
+ I posted this on an earlier open thread but it got buried. Since it got some 4-ratings I am reposting it in case anyone missed it: Is any group organizing people to go door-to-door DURING the Sinclair broadcast? I think it would be a great effort to counteract the negative slant of the TV show if you had someone show up WHILE it was on, to give you a flyer or some kind of info about how it breaks campaign finance/FCC rules. Mainstream America won't have heard about what Sinclair is doing -- they will see it as just another shockumentary or just another part of a dirty election year.
+ e-mail CNN, MSNBC etc. and let them know about the various local adveritsers pulling their business. If enough people let the nets know, it becomes a story and starts to gain its own momentum.
+ don't scold.
+ Cable news networks might also want to know who we're targeting...so they can go and pick up some advertising dollars!
+ By taking a very partisan stance in the 2004 Presidential election Sinclair Media has put your company in a tough position. The market for your products is comprised of customers who come in all shapes and sizes, and a variety of political parties. Stand with Sinclair and you'll lose customers. Stand against them and you'll lose customers.  Sinclair has put your company and its fortunes in the middle of what may turn out to be a controversial and illegal campaign contribution. I'd like to know how your company will respond to this as it will impact my purchasing decisions for many years to come.
+ "barely profitable and laden with debt," they can't afford a shitstorm like this so keep pounding them! http://www.usatoday.com/printedition/money/20041012/1b_corptax12.art.htm Plan to air divisive film raises questions By David Lieberman USA TODAY NEW YORK -- Wall Streeters, political activists and media critics Monday were trying to answer a perplexing question: Why would Sinclair Broadcasting CEO David Smith embroil himself in controversy by ordering his stations to air Stolen Honor: Wounds That Never Heal -- a documentary challenging Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry's Vietnam service -- within days of the presidential election? The decision annoyed investors. Sinclair's shares, which have lost about half their value in 2004, closed Monday at $7.38, down 12 cents. That's about as low as they've been since 1995. "I don't want my media companies that cover the news to be making news," says Barry Lucas of Gabelli & Co., which owns about 4% of Sinclair. Michael Copps, a Federal Communications Commission member who some believe could become chairman if Kerry wins, said it's "an abuse of the public trust. And it is proof positive of media consolidation run amok when one owner can use the public airwaves to blanket the country with its political ideology." Sinclair has 62 TV stations -- the No. 2 collection after Paxson Communications -- including many in such battleground states as Florida, Ohio, Missouri, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and West Virginia. The Democratic National Committee will file a complaint with the Federal Election Commission today. DNC lawyer Joe Sandler says Sinclair's plan is an "illegal in-kind contribution" to Bush. Sinclair did not return a call. Mark Hyman, vice president of corporate relations for Sinclair and an on-air conservative commentator for the company, told the Associated Press that the DNC's plan is "absolutely absurd." He added, "Would they suggest that our reporting a car bomb in Iraq is an in-kind contribution to the Kerry campaign?" But many believe Sinclair's provocative decision shows how much the company has riding on the election. With its heavy concentration of Fox and WB affiliates, ranking in the middle of the pack in mostly midsize markets, Sinclair is barely profitable and laden with debt. It had a net profit of $14 million on revenue of $739 million in 2003. Sinclair hopes to change that by solidifying its hold on local markets by controlling, for example, two stations in more cities and sharing operating and news-gathering costs. But it needs the federal government to relax several media ownership restrictions. Sinclair wants officials to permit a company to own two or more stations in more communities than allowed now. It also wants the FCC to ease a restriction that bars a company from owning TV stations reaching more than 35% of all homes, and to lift the rule that keeps companies from owning newspapers and TV stations in most markets. That's where the parties part ways. FCC Chairman Michael Powell, a Republican, has made media deregulation a priority, although many of the FCC's rule changes are tangled in court. Kerry says he'll clamp down on changes that promote consolidation.
+ Sinclair owns two Iowa TV stations: KDSM, a Fox affiliate in Des Moines, and Cedar Rapids' KGAN, a CBS affiliate. Both will air the special, officials said. http://www.dmregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20041012/NEWS09/410120361/1056 Hit 'em hard!
+ KDSM: Car repair. http://www.carx.com/ Wells Fargo Home Mortgage http://www.wfhm.com/ Steel roofing and garages http://www.LCIDist.com
+ WGME http://pressherald.mainetoday.com/news/state/041012sinclair.shtml
+ http://messages.yahoo.com/bbs?action=m&board=7083976&tid=sbgi&mid=2269&sid=7083976
+ CBS Marketwatch http://cbs.marketwatch.com/tools/quotes/intchart.asp?symb=SBGI&sid=14752&siteid=mktw Sinclair stock has fallen dramatically this year. It started the year at $15.00/share. By mid-March it was hovering at $12.50. It recovered to about $13.80, then slouched back to $12.50 in late April.  Shortly after it pre-empted Nightline for inconveniently announcing the names of dead war heroes, the stock crossed the $12.00 and $11.00 threshold around May 10. A brief recovery to $11.50 was followed by a decline to $10.00. About the time it announced second-quarter results in August, it plummeted to $8.00, at which level it hovered until mid-September. Over the next four weeks it dropped to about $7.15, rose to $7.80, then began its current decline before the boycott announcements.  My bet would be that Sinclair's latest grief comes as a result of greedy management and bad results. According to Yahoo! Finance, about 95% of the company is owned by the four sons of the founder. On September 14 it declared a $0.025/share dividend -- since the insiders own 53.66M shares, that's about $1.3 million for them. On October 4, it revised its Q3 earnings projection downward from about $167M to $163M, and it's a pity that quarterly expenses usually run $175M-$180M for them.  So while we might have enjoyed a bit of schadenfreude, it looks like disappointing internals and not the blogosphere are behind SBGI's recent grief, which is probably a continuation of a protracted decline.  Now, boys and girls, let us turn to Chapter 11 of My Pet Goat. 
+ It's first and foremost that they're so big. We need to face up to this problem across the whole spectrum of problems with governance. Businesses have been getting bigger since 1789. People haven't. Second of course is our 17th century system of coping with 21st century media.
+ http://www.abc45.com/greensboro_nc/
+ I was sad to see that Iams is a national advertiser with Sinclair. I buy two large bags of their dog food per month for my very large dog, and told them I was going to switch in the next week if they do not pull their advertising. I also let them know that I am friends with TONS of people who also use Iams, and that I'd be spreading the word. This is the way we make these things happen--drip by drip, email by email.
+ Mix in some of the Iams dog food with some of the new dog food, so your pooch's tummy can adjust slowly :)
+ I just got a great email from the owners of Carroll's Furniture in Arden, MN (see below). So if any of you need an armoire or a coffee table, you know where to go (http://www.carrolls-furniture.com/) They also sell through furniturefan.com Here's what they wrote: October 12, 2004 Thank you for your concern regarding the actions of the Sinclair Broadcast Group. We had no prior knowledge of the political stance of SBG and their local affiliate, KMWB23, when we placed our advertising dollars. It is not our intention to support this kind of political indecency. As a result of their insistence in airing "Stolen Hour," we have sent the following letter to the Sinclair Broadcast Group. Dear Sir: As an advertiser on your Minneapolis affiliate, KMWB23, we are appalled at Sinclair Broadcasting Group's lack of corporate citizenship in the mandatory broadcasting of "Stolen Hour." The deliberate support of any candidate over another candidate has no place in media programming governed by FCC regulations. It is the obligation of FCC license holders to present a balanced approach to broadcasting. Notice the word balanced, not the word unbiased. Offering Senator John Kerry a chance for rebuttal on your "documentary" is not a legitimate use of balanced reporting. It is our intention to cease advertising with your affiliate unless actions are taken by the Sinclair Broadcast Group to establish and maintain fair and balanced viewpoints in programming. Sincerely, Scott and Debra Rosenthal Owners Carroll's Furniture, Inc. 1203 West County Road E Arden Hills, MN 55112 
+ GO CARROLL'S FURNITURE!!! KEEP THE CALLS AND EMAILS GOING!
+ Minnesotans rock! I grew up there, and even though I've lived in DC for over 10 years now, I'm still a Minnesotan at heart!!
+ Way to go, Carroll's Furniture! Share the love and let them know you appreciate their response. ATTN Minnesotans: Be sure to contact Denny Hecker, Watson's and Win Mark (Play it again, Once Upon A Time, etc). These are BIG advertisers on WB23.
+ I suspect that Denny Hecker will be eager to listen to calls about Sinclair and willing to do something about it. According to the Fundrace.org site, Hecker has donated $2000.00 to the Kerry campaign. 
+ Schmoopdawg is proud to be in the same state. I'm working on Green Mill Restaurants, which I frequent.
+ I just got that email too! Go Carroll's Furniture in Minnesota! Anyone who knows folks up that way, spread the word around.
+ I too received the letter from Carrolls, power to them. I have been getting delivery failure on all efforts to reach Win Mark (Play it again, Once Upon A Time, etc) The info@ address supplied does not seem to work, maybe it is simply overloaded? They are a big advertiser in this market, we need to bother them. Anyone have a working email?
+ Subject line: Sinclair advertisers face boycott Dear sir or madam, Sinclair Broadcast Group has chosen to take sides in the presidential election, forcing its affiliate TV stations to air an anti-Kerry propaganda film during prime time next week. If Applebee's does not at least temporarily withdraw its advertising from Sinclair stations, my family will be forced to permanently withdraw our business from Applebee's restaurants. Sincerely, (My name and address)
+ Hit Sinclair ssociated "good will" and fundraising foundations. It's all about PR baby! Sent this for my area. Checking to see if the Komen Foundation is partnered with more SBGI affiliates. They have a HUGE fundraising event coming up they're pushing hard.... ### http://www.komen.org/ As an admirer and supporter of the Susan G. Komen Breast Cancer Foundation, as well as the adult child of a woman I watched suffer greatly from the ravages of cancer... I cannot help but comment to inform you that your association with the Sinclair Broadcasting Affiliate in my area: WBSC, Asheville, NC 110 Technology Drive Asheville, NC 28803 (828)684-1340 (864)297-1313 (Greenville, SC office) Web: www.wb40.com ...Via the huge fundraising ad on the main page of the WB40 portal has been noted by activists and is being investigated across other nationwide SBGI affiliates in this heated battle to return the public airwaves to the public and this "bad science" President to Texas. The MASSIVE boycott forming of ANY advertisers or foundations unwilling to pull their support (even by association) of SGBI given their announcement to forgoe FCC standards and violate Federal Election Influence restrictions with the illegal airing of the anti-Kerry infomercial "Stolen Honor" will not overlook even the best intentioned organizations such as yourself. And frankly, they don't deserve to profit in the arena of public relations off your good name. It is ironic given your mission statement "to eradicate breast cancer through RESEARCH, EDUCATION, SCREENING and TREATMENT" that no formal disdain with this President has been levied as of yet. But all politics aside, it is in the Komen Foundation's best interest to express sincere concerns to www.wb40.com and www.sbgi.net about their programming decisions and resultant impact on your honorable organization, as it would be with any SBGI affiliates you asssociate with. A sincere concerned supporter of the fight against Breast Cancer, [MEEEEEEEEEEEEE!] ### Yes, this is borderline EVIL but a sincere concern and potentially HIGHLY impactful. Check for co-sponsored "good will" fundraising events and foundations in your LOCAL area and make fundraisers worry, evaluate their own morality on this issue and take Sinclair TO TASK. In my experience, in the days leading up to an event like the Komen walk-a-thons being pushed all over the country, organizers are pulling out their own hair. They don't need this headache. Make 'em take note of the devil they're in bed withm because we've taken note of them!
+ Does anyone have a list of advertisers who have pulled their ads? We should reward them.
+ With kind words and encouragement. It will also play well with the letter writing to those who are reluctant, but persuadable. Something along the lines of "Please join Sylvian Learning Center, Chesrown Pontiac Buick GMC, Carrols Furniture and myself in refusing to support SBG."
+ See this in dkosopedia: http://www.dkosopedia.com/index.php/Sinclair_Broadcast_Group#Advertiser_Responses
+ Sinclair broadcasts over the airwaves, but 80% of their viewers receive the signal through cable. The cable companies, through a rule meant to protect "local content", are required to carry the signal. But if Sinclair is pre-empting its station managers -- acting, in effect, as a network with national newsfeed and centrally planned political programming -- then the cable operators ought to bump their signal. Or at least move it to a new spot between the hunting channels and the apocalyptic revivalists. The cable companies are eager for a pretext, and Sinclair seems to be handing them one. Sinclair could lose its audience well before it loses its licenses.
+ There's talk on Yahoo Finance of a HUGE dump of Sinclair stock at 3:30, and definitely by the end of the week. If that happens, David Smith may have to disconnect his phone.
+ Thank you very much. I will be contacting these companies today.
+ I urge you to immediately limit your companies investment exposure to Sinclair Broadcasting Group, which by ordering all its stations to run a political slander against Kerry just before the election has made it likely that it will in the near future lose its broadcast licenses, or at minimum sustain considerable legal fees in defending them, as a number of them are now being actively challenged based on this possibly illegal and certainly unethical act. In addition a large boycott being directed at its station affiliates is gearing up. In response today, Mark Hymen the Vice President of Sinclair on CNN this morning (10/12/04) have just now been roundly condemned by the Anti-Defamation League for its anti-Semitic content in comparing the indignation by their blatantly partisan, and possibly illegal in-kind donation of broadcasting this anti-Kerry propaganda piece with "they are acting like Holocaust deniers". This is also the company that forced its ABC stations to not carry the ABC Nightline broadcast of the names and photos of the soldiers lost in Iraq, claiming it was "too political" yet is now giving free, in-kind donated air-time to anti-kerry fringe groups in the week before the elections. This is not going unnoticed in the major media and this is escalating. It is going to severely damage Sinclair, as this boycott is gearing up, and already Sylvan Learning Center's in Tampa are pulling their advertising, as is HER Realtors with Sinclair's Columbus affiliates. There is as yet unconfirmed reports that Best Buy is pulling their national advertising. I encourage you and your managers to consider eliminating your exposure to this already poorly performing company which is about ti be severely harmed via the boycotts and overwhelmingly negative publicity this is generating. Mitchell Gore
+ http://finance.messages.yahoo.com/bbs?.mm=FN&action=m&board=7083976&tid=sbgi&sid=708 3976&mid=2442
+ I emailed a business called Menard's at guest@menard-inc.com - I got the contact info off of the index of advertisers at this site. Menard's is listed under the Des Moines market. A man named Ray emailed me back and said he was sorry to have let me down and thanked me for the heads up, saying he needs my business and basically he would "get on it." Not sure whether that was a brush off or whether he is really going to take action, but he may be amenable to more friendly emails notifying him of the importance of avoiding advertising on Sinclair stations. He was polite in his note, so of course, be polite to him!
+ NewsCenter@bestbuy.com
+ Do whatever you can. I've just sent emails to everyone on this list: http://www.boycottsbg.com/advertisers/default.aspx Now I'm going site to site and clicking on "Contact Us" sections and letting all of them know what I think. Do the same!
+ When it comes down to it, why are we supporting Chili's, Arby's, Long John Silver's or Dominos anyway? We should boycott them all the time. Go to a local eatery and leave your money with someone who will spend it in your community. Drive less so the oil companies don't suck money out of your community every month. Do this regardless of "special occasions" like this. More than anything though, we need to stop supporting Wal-Mart. They are wiping out good community serving businesses every day. If I need something plastic, I will go to someone who locally sells it. I may pay 1% more for it or even 10%, but that money will be spent at least once more in my community. As far as I'm concerned, they should show the anti-Kerry film and then we'd have a good case for relieving Sinclair of it's licenses to broadcast over the public airways. 
+ Shop at Wal Mart
+ I've been emailing and posting up a storm on all the advertiser sites. This is tiring! But it feels good to be doing something. Has anyone heard if any other businesses have pulled support?
+ It's hard to make a decision in just one day and many are probably waiting to see if it's a flash or if we are just a sideshow. As it continues to grow and expand then it will sink in they must respond. Remember too that the word is just getting out: hell, I'd guess only 5% of the progressive community knows of this yet - I've yet to receive email from an outside source - generally takes a week from when I learn about it on dKos for it to come back to me via another source. A few will fall each day and as it builds it will be seen as more and more legitimate and it will become easier for businesses to take the plunge.
+ We've had at least 3 confirmed ad pulls from local advertisers. This one is expecially noteworthy: (Michael Rayboun from Whibbs and Whibbs, P.A.) Dear Sinclair: My firm is pulling all of our advertising dollars from your Pensacola ABC affiliate, WEAR. Your decisions in the past, the nightly rhetoric from Mark Hyman, and your recent decision which, we believe, is damaging to the democratic process itself, make it impossible for us to continue funding such reprehensible conduct. Michael Rayboun Whibbs & Whibbs, P.A.
+ Anyone have a list? I used to live down there and may know some of the businesses that advertise. I worked at WEAR ages ago actually as a news producer.
+ I posted roughly 20 advertisers to the database. I used to work there, too.
+ Please see the list on dkosopedia, and keep it updated! http://www.dkosopedia.com/index.php/Sinclair_Broadcast_Group
+ Since Sylvan is doing the honorable thing in its choice to withdraw as an advertiser on Sinclair Network stations, we need to show them our thanks.  Take time to send them an e-mail and let them know that that we will be speaking highly of them to our friends... Here's the e-mail address I found for investor relations: http://www.chris.symanoskie@laureate-inc.com We should do the same for all of the advertisers with withdraw their ads...it's really great advertising for them...and it's free! Roberta Laidman
+ chris.symanoskie@laureate-inc.com this should work
+ But can someone show me proof that Sylvan is pulling ads?
+ No, we have no proof yet, but their stock has been going down lately. If it means saving some money on advertising and getting some free advertising from us, I doubt they'll object. If it turns out that they said they would pull their advertising and they don't...well, it cuts both ways... Roberta
+ to the Baltimore affiliate: Millions of Americans depend on television as their source of unbiased and balanced news coverage and analysis, putting their trust in television affiliates to deliever the best, most accurate news possible. Unfortunately, this power can be misused for political purposes. I do not agree with SBG's recent decision to air a politicized propoganda film in the final hours of the election. I have contacted various advertisers to express my concerns and hope that some remedial action is taken as soon as possible.
+ Just talked to a lawyer i know they have almost 50 law firms under one marketing dept all the firms have told their marketing director to tell sinclair that all of those firms are pulling their ads
+ On the front page of the websites of my two local stations owned by Sinclair there is now a prominently displayed link that says "Click here to send a comment to Sinclair Broadcast Group, Inc." Think the local stations are trying to deflect some heat?
+ The Portland, Maine affiliate has put a similar link up on its home page. Must be a corporate thing, though, and not a regular deflection. I wouldn't be surprised if all Sinclair sites are run off a similar system. I worked for a [redacted] subsidiary a couple of years ago in the design/development branch. We developed a cookie-cutter system that allowed for each TV station to have a similar site, all run off the same database. While most content was separated between stations, there were a few occasions where it proved necessary to publish an item - like that link you noted - across all sites instantly.
+ Address Everyone at Once TO: Corporate Advertisers... Amy.Sherwood@Yum.com; Talbot.cg@pg.com; sonicpr@sonicdrivein.com; boardofdirectors@pepsi.com; consumer_relations@dpsu.com; investor.relations@brinker.com; procermexlt@corona-extra.com; ca.diraimo@applebees.com CC: Financial Analysts, SBGI and NEWS... james.boyle@wachovia.com; drew.marcus@db.com; wmeyers@lehman.com; Vmiller@bear.com; paul.sweeney@csfb.com; investor@sbgnet.com; dsmith@sbgnet.com; am@cnn.com; (plus local news) Subject: Good Corporate Citizens: Please Join Sylvan Learning Centers in the Fight to Stop Illegal Federal Election Influence Dear good people of Applebee's, Corona Beer, Macaroni Grill, Chili's Restaurants, Dr. Pepper, 7-Up, Pepsi Cola, Mountain Dew, Sonic Drive-in Restaurants, Taco Bell and Proctor & Gamble Brands: The first corporate citizen to be honored and rewarded for it's firm stand against Sinclair Broadcasting's illegal Federal Election influence efforts on the national level is Sylvan Learning Centers. Many activists have now confirmed the Sylvan response from both local and corporate sources to no longer advertise on any SBGI stations. That is, of course, until a complete reversal of Sinclair's announced plans to pre-empt prime time network broadcasting for their anti-Kerry "Stolen Honor" infomercial to be shown in all or part as an orchestrated "newsworthy" event before the election. Sylvan is destined now to win the public relations game and be rewarded handsomely in good will once a formal announcement and position is revealed. Please note their position is not political; merely supportive of good broadcasting ethics, and frankly good financial sense when it comes to a massive boycott. An ever increasing number of local advertisers in each of the 62 Sinclair markets in which activists have applied pressure have already made the right decision (and the database of Company's we actively appreciate will be circulated soon), but Sylvan is the first at the national level. Please join in their wisdom. Thank you kind, busy people for your attention. Sincerely, One of Millions Then find some stinking AOL buddy list and spam the globe. It get's the e-mail contacts AND the message out.
+ But add the ADL and FCC stuff. PLUS... we still cannot confirm Sylvan
+ Forgive me if this is old news. Saw this on CFA. Looks pretty damning. (Also my 1st time posting, so I hope I am doing this right.) Subsidiary of network airing anti-Kerry film awarded `war on terror' contract Sinclair Broadcasting Group, under fire for ordering its 62 networks to broadcast a film sharply critical of John Kerry's opposition to the Vietnam War, is a major investor in a company recently awarded a military contract by the Bush Administration, RAW STORY has learned. Jadoo Power Systems, Inc., a producer of portable power systems, announced Sept. 28 that it had been awarded a contract to supply its products, which are used for covert surveillance operations, to US Special Operations Command. According to the SOCOM website, SOCOM "plans, directs, and executes special operations in the conduct of the War on Terrorism." http://www.bluelemur.com/index.php?p=340
+ Hello, I used the link from above to email the advertisers. I received the following error (so far): mailto:MCKINNELL@PFIZER.COM The recipient name is not recognized I guess the email campaign must be working! John
+ is a Bush Pioneer FWIW.
+ While NASDAQ drops 0.2% today, Sinclair is down 1.22%(9 cents).
+ KMWB 23 in Minneapolis is offering an online poll regarding the anti-Kerry documentary. Please vote here: http://www.kmwb23.com/minneapolis_mn/
+ These dittohead stations have apparently all changed their question to "should John Kerry respond to the charges brought by POW's in the Documentary (always capitalized!!). Another bait and switch ploy when the poll was not going their way.
+ the poll is " Should John Kerry respond to the charges made by POW's in the Documentary? " This is like asking some one "Have you stopped beating your wife?".  It is not "should John Kerry respond", it should be "should this documentary be shown". Folks, they are tricking people to come to poll.
+ A post on Yahoo's message board for Sinclair investors mentioned that Sinclair may have overcharged Kerry for ads. Came on WTSP, the CBS station in Tampa Bay. No link yet--story just broke. But if this is true, the Smiths might want to get their resumes ready. http://finance.messages.yahoo.com/bbs?.mm=FN&action=m&board=7083976&tid=sbgi&sid=708 3976&mid=2000&thr=2000&cur=2000&dir=d
+ This is great! If anyone knows any other advertisers we can contact, please post them! I've contacted several affiliates but not advertisers yet!
+ Earnest Partners SHARES HELD: 4,946,278 Gabelli Asset Management Co (gamco) SHARES HELD: 3,640,000 Westfield Capital Management Co SHARES HELD: 2,616,950 Morgan Stanley Investment Management SHARES HELD: 2,526,303 Neuberger Berman SHARES HELD: 2,266,809 Putnam Investment Mgmt SHARES HELD: 2,081,861 Barclays Global Investors Intl SHARES HELD: 1,801,161 Blackrock Inc SHARES HELD: 1,428,435 Janus Capital Corp SHARES HELD: 1,417,887
+ This list, with active links is over at the bottom of the page at the dKospedia entry for Sinclair
+ http://www.fox47.com/ If you go here under creative services, you can find a handful of local TV ads produced by the station in Madison, Wisconsin. If some steenking badgers can help me out here, the ads should have addresses, phone numbers, websites, etc. If you don't want to watch, I'm sure the places can be googled. Contact them, please, I need to get my son to Cub Scouts. My evening's shot.
+ http://www.boycottsbg.com/advertisers/ Powell at the FCC : Michael.Powell@fcc.gov Sinclair in your area: http://sbgweb2.sbgnet.com/business/television.shtml
+ We also need to let the affiliates & Sinclair know we will boycott them--their programming--not watch them in the future regardless of advertisers pulling ads or not. I hear they may run "Stolen Honor" without advertising so we have to let the broadcast group and its affiliates know we'll boycott their regular (non-"Stolen Honor" advertisers) and their future broadcasts of any nature! So if we not only boycott the advertisers but their stations/programming in general, maybe that will get their attention. They'll know they will lost a LOT of viewers over all perhaps permanently!!!!
+ I wrote to Lowry Law Offices asking them to stop advertising on WGME in Portland, Maine due to Sinclair's ownership and the anti-Kerry situation. Here is Mr. Lowry's response: "Funny you should be writing to me regarding my supposed advertising on WGME when, as a matter of fact, I have not advertised on that station for several months now. Nor did I have any intention of going back on that station simply because of my disgust with the Mark Hyman pieces which I have seen running on that station. Certainly after what I read in this morning's paper about their plan to run the anti-Kerry program, there is no way that I would run any of my ads with them, at least not until they change their biased way of doing business.   I would suggest that you not be so fast to condemn before checking your facts. Playing fast and loose with facts is a Bush attribute which can best be left to him and Cheney and their gang." I wrote back apologizing if they no longer advertise there and applauding his decision. They should probably be taken off the list on the boycott site. GDoyle
+ I was the one that posted them as an advertiser in the database. The reason why is that they are advertised in the WGME shopper, available at the WGME website: http://www.wgme.com/shopper/portland_October.pdf They didn't stop "several months ago". They are still advertising this month.
+ We posted a bunch on our blog, The Peach (http://www.thepeach.blogspot.com) You will find links to contact pages or web sites of all of the following Sinclair Advertisers: Halls Fruit Breezers, Sylvan Learning Centers, Kentucky Fried Chicken, ITT Technical Institute, Ford Motor Company, Yahoo DSL, Isuzu, Hardees, Taco Bell, Toyota, Warner Brothers * (many Sinclair owned stations are WB stations), Century 21, Prudential, Zigzagzone.com, Cnn.com, General Motors, Geico, Pepsi, Mountain Dew, Titan TV, Iams, Miller Lite, Ringling Brothers, Oak Express, ABC Solutions, Kentucky Lottery, Florida Lottery, NFL, Lincoln Mercury, H&R Block, Pontiac, Arby's Have fun.
+ ...and Starbucks? I don't have attribution, but someone on the Yahoo boards seems to think all these companies have pulled their ads. Anyone have confirmation?  http://finance.messages.yahoo.com/bbs?.mm=FN&action=m&board=7083976&tid=sbgi&sid=708 3976&mid=2681
+ A list of the progress on advertisers can be found at: http://www.dkosopedia.com/index.php/Sinclair_Broadcast_Group#Advertiser_Responses
+ "Do you think Sinclair Broadcasting's plan to air an anti-Kerry documentary is a violation of equal time laws?" Vote here
+ You can post email to the FCC on this issue from freepress.net, which has a complete, wizard-style process to build and submit the email to the FCC, complete with canned text which you can "make your own" before sending. The wizard will also show you the Sinclair affiliate in your broadcast area. Note that they just got advertised on Air America Radio and the site was being hammered when I got there ... ;-) mp
+ Forgive me if I missed this up stream, but want to make sure you have the FCC phone number announced at Air America 1-888-225-5322 Hold the line to register a complaint. They are being inundated by Dem calls...!
+ As a type 2 diabetic, i used to consume a 12 pk of coca cola a day. I could not stand drinking diet coke. After trying every diet soda on the market, i found that diet dr pepper was the only drink for me. I drink at least a six pk a day and have been doing so for over 8 years. If you are aware of the SInclair Broadcasting controversy over the showing of a political propaganda hit piece days before a national election, then you understand why i writing to you. I will be forced to start drinking Diet vanilla coke (it is almost acceptable) if you find yourself unable to join us in a protest to these tactics by withdrawing advertising on Sinclair stations. We as americans in a democracy deserve better than supporting companies willing to bend FCC and FEC rules in a general election, and who are definitely acting against the interests of american values. Please join the American People in their fight for American Principles sincerely
+ I think GEICO is an easy target because it is easier to show that you mean business by leaving the plan. Does anyone have the best contact? Should it be the parent or the subsidiary? A specific contact would be great. I can't seem to find it on their web site.
+ Here's what I find for Geico: Geico 1-800-824-5404   Website contactmarketing@geico.com  My car is insured by them but won't be for long, if they don't pull their ads. I have called local businesses today. I know these people, many of them. Papa John's Pizza can look at my number, check and see that I order a pizza from them quite regularly. They responded well. 
+ I agree .... but it sucks because Geico actually offers damn low rates compared to everyone else. If I left them, I would be shooting myself in my own pocketbook.
+ ... and going flippin' nuts over it. Every site from which I hyperlink the Sinclair advertiser database gives me "site not found" message - and I'm on DSL with a PIII processor. Please, in my absence, someone get to the advertisers on KMCI/Kansas City, Channel 38, and give them my boycott by proxy.
+ I know there are sites that do this...why doesn't someone put together an online petition. Give 24 hours or something like that to gather signatures, and then send it to all the major sponsors. That might be more impressive than individual calls and emails. 
+ This one needs a little help. Notice it's a different question: "Should John Kerry respond to POW's charges in Stolen Honor?" http://newscentral.tv/
+ that is tricky poll. see my post above: this is like asking "Has he stopped beating his wife?" Yes or No.
+ Anyone received this yet? Note "Notwithstanding" paragraph in particular... The recent Tyson Foods advertising buy has included network buys on CBS, ABC,and Fox. It has not included any direct spot buys from the Sinclair Network, which is comprised of affiliate stations from these networks. Any Tyson advertising which might have run on Sinclair affiliates, would have been generated from the national networks from whom our buys have been made. In order for our company to discontinue our spots from running on Sinclair-owned stations, we would have to completely discontinue our network television advertising. Notwithstanding, our ad campaign is scheduled to be temporarily suspended after this Friday. The site http://www.boycottsbg.com/advertisers/default.aspx has been contacted, and has removed our company's name. Ed Nicholson
+ Am I reading this right .... Tyson Foods has suspended its advertising over this???
+ The statement is peculiarly worded, which makes me doubt whether they are trying to split hairs with legalese: For example, they state that they haven't done any "direct ad buys" from Sinclair but acknowledge some of their ads run on Sinclair affiliates. Also, they say their ads are "scheduled" to stop this Friday. Companies often go on and off the air according to scheduled ad buys...
+ over what the Tyson message sent. I haven't responded to him yet because I wasn't quite sure if it was something to celebrate or not... I'm not familiar with how the system works. He did mention that he's getting their name off the boycott list, so somehow he convinced them to remove them.
+ A number of the companies on the list of advertisers  do a lot of business overseas. Chili's, Domino's, 7-Up, Energizer, Ford, Gilette, Hyundai and so on. With Bush so roundly hated worldwide - well, emails from overseas Americans to these companies might also have some resonance..
+ I tried http://www.boycottsbg.com but it seems to be down. There is an alternative, not as complete but it will do in a pinch: http://boycottsbg.blogspot.com
+ "This is an abuse of the public trust. And it is proof positive of media consolidation run amok when one owner can use the public airwaves to blanket the country with its political ideology -- whether liberal or conservative." - Michael J. Copps FCC Commissioner Email these folks... at KGAN, Cedar Rapids, Iowa! Ask that they show some backbone for fairness. Boycott their advertisers... Local AND National. http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/index.html kgan@kgan.com General Manager: Mike Sullivan mike.sullivan@kgan.com News Director: Rod Peterson rpeterson@kgan.com National Sales Manager: Mark Classon mclasson@kgan.com Local Sales Manager: Jim Stoos jstoos@kgan.com
+ Why are we boycotting Sinclair?
+ I don't know if this is a repeat of an earlier post but there is an article about Sinclair and a link to the Bushies.  Apparently Jadoo Power Systems, Inc., a producer of portable power systems, announced Sept. 28 that it had been awarded a contract to supply its products, which are used for covert surveillance operations, to US Special Operations Command. According to the SOCOM website, SOCOM "plans, directs, and executes special operations in the conduct of the War on Terrorism." Jadoo, whose name in Hindi means "magic," is owned by Sinclair Ventures, Inc. and Contango Capital Management. Sinclair Ventures is "a wholly owned subsidiary of Sinclair Broadcast Group, Inc. as well as other individuals." They've donated $59000 to the RNC and their CEO has had a face to face with furious George.
+ This is the email I sent and reply I got from Circuit City. I sent: I understand that circuit city is an advertiser on Sinclair broadcasting group, which is airing the politically motivated movie "Stolen Honor" uncut with no commercials, before the 2004 election. This is an abuse of the public airwaves, airing propoganda, nothing more, to influence an election. My name is William T Denis IV. I am a cardholder with CC. I like your stores and have spent a good bit of money with them. If you continue to pursue advertising with the Sinclair Broadcasting group in light of their current actions I will cut up my Circuit City credit card and never enter your store again. I'm sorry for it to come to this and for me to send this kind of email but I feel the stakes are higher than normal and as such, I cannot look the other way and will do whatever I can, within the law, to counter it. Part of that is determining where my money is spent. Thank you for your time. They replied: Thank you for writing to Circuit City. I understand your concern regarding the ads on the Sinclair Broadcast Group stations. Please accept my apologies for any inconvenience you may have encountered. I appreciate your taking the time to share your experience with us.  Whether the feedback we receive is positive or negative, it remains a crucial tool for determining how we can improve our products and services. We would address this further and work on making improvements. As you wish to address the issue regarding the ads you are referring to, I suggest that you write to our Corporate Customer Support Department at the address mentioned below with your issue/concern in detail, as they would be in a better position to assist you. Circuit City Stores, Inc. Customer Support 9960 Mayland Drive Richmond, Virginia 23233. I apologize for any inconvenience that you may have experienced and hope that we will be able to restore your faith in our company. We value you as our customer and your satisfaction is very important to us. If you have any further questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to contact us. Thanks again for writing to Circuit City. Your continued patronage is important to our company. We hope to have the occasion to serve your future consumer electronics, home, office and entertainment needs. Sincerely, Sunil D. Customer Support Coordinator I consider this unsatisfactory. I cancelled my credit card with Circuit City and cut it up this morning.
+ Thank you for your e-mail regarding our advertisements. We appreciate the time you took to inform us of your concerns. Victoria's Secret always has and always will stand for quality, great value and integrity. We consider prime time television advertising to be an essential ingredient in marketing our products to current and potential clients. The commercial time Victoria's Secret purchases in no way endorses the program in which our commercials are shown. Again, we appreciate your comments and take them seriously. We continually evaluate client feedback to provide direction for our future efforts. If you need further assistance, please reply to this e-mail or call anytime. Thank you for your interest in Victoria's Secret. Sincerely, Victoria M. VictoriasSecret.com Client Services Visit www.VictoriasSecret.com Phone 1.614.577.7111 Fax 1.614.577.7178
+ Check out this article, especially the last paragraph: Star Tribune article
+ As high as 14 cents above close--but most investor sentiment is that management is trying to buy their own stock as much as they can before the full impact of their blunder hits. Guy at work said that the market acted on its own to punish Sinclair--baloney!
+ it lost five cents off that gain ... could the dump be on? Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of Repubs.
+ I can't get to the database. Anyone have a list of local advertisers on KOVR, channel 13, in Sacramento?
+ This is their idea of democracy
+ This type of conduct is outrageous! If a group wants to register only voters of their own party, they should either target particular neighborhoods (where demographic factors favor them), or they should politely decline to give voter registration forms to those who express a different preference (these voters can always get the forms elsewhere). But to deceive voters into thinking you are filing their registration forms for them, but then declining to do it is a form of "vote fraud".
+ I suggest everybody, especially Nevadans, contact Sen. Harry Reid and tell him to take action on this. At the very least he should issue a statement to the news media or hold a press conference for Nevada TV stations condemning the RNC for these unAmerican tactics. His e-mail contact form is here: http://reid.senate.gov/email_form.cfm His office numbers are here: 202-224-3542 Washington D.C. 702-388-5020 Las Vegas 775-686-5750 Reno 775-882-7343 Carson City
+ FEC Audit Division Joseph Stoltz, Assistant Staff Director Telephone: 800-424-9530 (press 0, then ext. 1200) 202-694-1200 202-219-3483 (fax) E-Mail: audit@fec.gov
+ Dear Mr Stoltz, I recently heard of voter registration tampering within the state of Nevada. I am inserting a link to the story: http://www.klas-tv.com/Global/story.asp?S=2421595&nav=168XRvNe I wondered if your organization had heard of this, and if it is against Federal statutes to engage in this type of activity. I await your answer on this. Respectfully yours,
+ Dem HQ in Reno. The woman I spoke with hadn't heard about this so I gave her the link.....
+ Has the date to register to vote 11/2 already passed in Nevada? If not, there should be a major media blitz to inform Democratic voters that their registration forms may have been destroyed.
+ Today was the last day. Read down thread for discussion of possible remedies.
+ Slightly different wording, same general message. Thanks for the sample.
+ Folks, Harry Reid's office is working as hard as they can and believe me, they know about this and are working every lever -- legal, political, etc.
+ So far I haven't read anything from him, but if you say he's on it then I believe you. I hope Reid lights a fire in the Nevada media. Placing this scandal squarely on the Republicans is the only way to achieve justice for this outrage. Complaints to Bush's FEC will probably go nowhere if it is similar to his FCC and SEC and FERC.
+ We have long past the point where the GOP are trying to throw the election under the radar. I friend of mine who is not into politics or either candidates said that Bush's constant yelling during the debates is a sign of fear. After he said that I thought about why this man spent 7 minutes in a classroom in Sarasota listening to kids read My Pet Goat. The answer is he was scared and didn't know what to do. If this guy can't handle John Kerry in a debate what makes people think he can handle terrorism.
+ that this administration's actions have given me free licence to believe, in the privacy of my own head, any scurrilous rumors about them that happen to please me... and to propagate such rumors when I choose. In that connection, I am delighted to mention the rumor that several children in the classroom said afterwards that the President had peed his pants. This would, of course, fully explain the 7 minutes. There would have been no way he could stand up while the cameras were still focused on him... No. I don't really believe it. But... it is still a pleasantly malicious image to contemplate.
+ I checked the before and after video from that day, and it's clear that his pants are a different color. Also, I noticed a mysterious bulge...
+ AARP is having its convention of 25,000 members in Vegas this week. Kerry is speaking to them Thursday morning. Bush was invited to speak but declined. AP Link to AARP story: http://tinyurl.com/4a7xd Not only is AARP is one of the sponsors of the debates, but their website includes a voter registration link (see below). I'm sure they would find this story fascinating. http://www.aarp.org/tools/partner?url=https://ssl.capwiz.com/aarp/nvra/
+ Bush declined to speak to the AARP??? That's crazy. You'd think he would go there to talk about his prescription drug plan, which they endorsed by the way.
+ He just won't be stopping by them. Now granted, my grandmothers live further away than most people's, but if I were to be in their town and not stop by to see them, I would be in for a world of hurt.
+ to registered Repugs who we're willing to write essays about why they were going to vote for Bushie. Weren't those two of the three requirements established by the repug campaign to attend a BC04 rally in Oregon?
+ That is sad. Welcome Neo-Neanderthals.
+ ... surprised by this? Sadly, I'm not. The GOP showed their true colors in 2000 in Florida. Some have said this isn't the GOP but just a "fringe" group -- honey, it's a fringe group with millions of dollars behind it and thousands of people involved in it. Realistically, if we cannot any longer count on honest elections in this country, then our supposed Democracy crumbles right at our feet. Who can we possibly trust again? This would mean that the enemy has won -- the real enemy has been active among us for a long time, apparently. I've said this a lot in the past four years, but especially now, I'm not proud of my country today.
+ Realistically, if we cannot any longer count on honest elections in this country That's scary.
+ This clearly demonstrates that there are lots of repugs who simply don't care about democracy. They care about holding on to power, and fear that the majority of voters will take that power from them.
+ It's been clear since the impeachment of Pres. Clinton over a blowjob that these people are neo-fascists who will stop at nothing to keep their hold on power. Voter fraud is not surprising at all.  BTW Osama bin Laden would probably be dead if Clinton hadn't been politically hamstrung by the impeachment. Sorry for off-topic.  "it's about character"
+ The man at the Reno Gazette Journal says they won't follow up on TV news 'cause "they're always wrong". Maybe true, yet....  he says if it comes over the AP wire then they will report it. I don't know how to get this to AP! HELP!
+ You can email the story to the AP with this email: info@ap.org.  Here is the AP info for Nevada specifically: Las Vegas P.O. Box 70 Las Vegas NV 89125-0070 (702) 382-7440 Carson City 102 N. Curry St. Carson City NV 89703-4934 (775) 687-4190/4191 687-8606 Fax Reno P.O. Box 22000 Reno NV 89520-2000 (775) 322-3639 322-3763 Fax I'd email them but my email is busted right now. I will call in the morning however and suggest the story to them.
+ Oregon librarian caught Nathan Sproul trying to pass his bogus organization off as AmericaVotes.Org in September . Skip down several paragraphs to second story from the Oregonian. Librarian bares possible voter registration scam MEDFORD -- An Arizona company claiming to be affiliated with the nonpartisan America Votes approached Oregon libraries about setting up voter registration booths. But a Medford librarian checking on the request discovered that Sproul & Associates Inc. of Phoenix, Ariz., was not affiliated with the national, nonpartisan group. In fact, the group is a political consulting firm headed up by former Arizona state Republican Party executive director Nathan Sproul. snip "This organization (Sproul) absolutely has nothing to do with America Votes," said Kevin Looper, the state organizing director for America Votes. snip "We were not trying to copy their name," said Nathan Sproul, owner of the consulting and management company. "All we were trying to do is register people to vote." -------- This scumbag has been doing the same in Oregon as he recently did in Nevada. Better check out Arizona too. This group is purposefully using the similar sounding names to its advantage. How many democratic party registrations have they shredded?
+ What makes you think so? Seriously.
+ ...if there are former employees willing to say that a manager directed the destruction of records, a case against the manager would be a slam-dunk, and maybe they could roll the manager up to get the company. Not a hard case to prosecute from what we know.
+ I'm sure some law is being broken, but I'm just curious which one. For example, if I go outside a grocery store, pretend to register people, and then go home and throw away all the applications while cackling "Fools! They think they're registered but they're not!", is that against the law? 
+ you can do time for this. Especially if you work for a political group like the RNC. It's called ciminal election fraud in many states. Or maybe impersonating a public official. And if you do this to someone over 65 you can get a kick between the legs. 
+ See my post, currently far below, for the likely (precise) answer.
+ voters you must be a sworn deputy registrar. Failing to deliver a signed voter registration form within 5 days of the signature is a crime. At least that's the law in Texas. Mail in forms can be handed out to potential voters but you can't have a mail in with someone elses name on it, that's vote fraud.
+ Prosecutors would have a range of choices, I'd think... The Don't Fuck With My Registration Act of 1973 The Destroying Public Records Is A Felony, Fucktard, Act of 1958 The Commiting Voter Fraud in Plain Sight Act of 1997 (employee suits under the "Whoopass" clause, section 103) as well as a little-known state statute, the Some Things That Are Even Illegal In Nevada Act of 1986 plus which, I think since the landmark ruling of US v. Chimpface, victims of electoral stupidity in a parking lot have been entitled to $10,000 worth of airline tickets.
+ to pay per registration form in Nevada, if any of the hourly employees were given bonus payments for registration forms that could be illegal as well. They might be investigating this in addition to the fraud charges?
+ What political party is the Attorney General of Nevada?
+ Violation of civil rights.
+ Ashcroft will drag his feet on this for years.
+ Ashcroft will not only exonerate them completely, he'll give them award for fighting terrorism! Probably only political pragmatism prevents him from doing it already, before the election!
+ Asscrack...er, Ashcroft will only drag his feet on this till he's out of a job early next year.
+ Sandoval is a Republican, and his website is no help whatsoever that I can see, but I'm freakin' tired. http://ag.state.nv.us/
+ This is a marathon - not a sprint.  Take care of yourself. You have lots of energized compatriates who will work hard while you recharge. 
+ Does this company only work in Nevada? A friend of mine registered to vote in CT by mail a couple of months ago. She just called and found out that she hasn't been registered. This may be unrelated (I have little confidence in the efficiency of the CT bureaucracy), but I'd be curious to hear if this sort of story is more widespread.
+ I went around registering co-workers and family via the state's mail-in form a couple of months ago and their registrations seem to have come through just fine...
+ I'm not sure what went wrong--just something to look out for.
+ Out of all the crap I have seen so far in this election, this by far "takes the cake". This is the sickest thing I have ever seen. Imagine all of those people who will head to the polls on election day only to be turned away. I am speechless.
+ I was in Nashville, TN in 200 and Little Rock, AR in 2002. I saw people on both occasions waiting in line to vote, but end up getting locked out due to forcing poll closure. These voters were mostly African Americans. This didn't make the local news until well after the elections, although the extent of the disenfranchisement was not investigated thoroughly. By far the worst incidents were in Nashville. I couldn't vote in 2002, because my registration card didn't make it from the voter registration booth on campus to registrars office. Never again. "The ultimate preserver of democracy is constant vigilance and resilience of people."
+ Sent this story out to email contacts earlier & used the very same words. And, along with Turtle Bay below, I very much like the idea of the words 'voting fraud conspiracy' and 'RNC' making the media rounds right now. If only. The thing that particularly gets me about this particular story, really, is the damn balls on these supervisors. Just ripping forms up in front of employees .. who, I suppose, would be fully expected to just go deaf , dumb & blind in the interest of love & togetherness. Really .. who are these people & what country are they in?
+ I just finished writing a story on voter suppression. A representative at the RNC agreed to speak with me & answer my questions, following up on Kerry's speech Sunday before last. But as soon as he heard my first question--and realized that I was going to question him about specific cases--he said that he was "not qualified" to speak to me, and would have to find someone else to answer my questions. I never heard back. These guys can't stand the heat. It's time to chase them out of the kitchen.
+ It probaly didnt coincide with the talking points they were gonna spew back at you.
+ TV, explain what happened, give people their rights back? This makes me crazy!!
+ bastards
+ I was told here in NYC, if my address change doesn't go through by election day, I can vote affa davit [totally spelled that wrong]. is that possible in NV?
+ for voters who thought they registered? boy, the dirty, seamy underbelly is really showing up front and center, isn't it?
+ should file for an injunction directing that voters who were cheated by the RNC be allowed to vote even though they are not on the roll.
+ I like the suggestion that the state legislature should respond with an emergency resolution allowing for election-day registration at the polls, as is done in some states. I think this should be our demand. 
+ This is a great idea. How do we demand that? Can someone give us an action alert and we hit it?
+ easier to file a suit and convince a judge, IMHO.
+ That's what the Repubs would do.
+ Who controls them?
+ Who controls them? In all seriousness, the casinos.
+ Nevada legislature only meets every other year and I'm pretty sure they aren't in session now because Governor Kenny Guinn just threaten to call a special session to impeach a fellow Repug who admitted to an ethics violation.
+ Oh. Well, I know this isn't that big a deal, just being Democracy and voting and all, you know, the very reason our boys and girls are supposedly dying as we type... But maybe they can bother to CALL A DAMN SPECIAL SESSION for this? Just a friendly thought.
+ And they can impeach the other guy while they're at it. How's that for government efficiency!
+ I'm with you on that one!
+ Actually we should have done something after 2000 election. This is a serious as it gets. Bush is trying to steal yet another election. We should be rioting in the streets about this. When are we going to realize that we are under the control of a fascist government more corrupt than any banana republic. Kerry better say something about this tomorrow night. We need to organize a major protest over this. We must make people aware of this before it's too late.
+ About 10 minutes ago, the NV Democratic Party held a press conference calling for immediate action. Telling people to check their reg status and where to go to register. There's very little chance that the deadline will be extended, but a very good chance that the Republicans will be on the defensive about this at least locally for the next few news cycles. Which includes Bush's visit here Thursday.
+ MUST be arranged for his visit. We must let them know we will fight any and all attempts to steal this election. They have no other chance of winning. You cannot find 10 people in America who voted Gore in 2000 who are voting Bush in 2004. This and Diebold are their only chance.
+ voting affidavit? Is this possible in NV or is it legal in all states? I was told its legal here in NYC.
+ A voting affidavit, as I understand it, is functionally similar to a provisional ballot. The Help America Vote Act requires provisional ballots be accepted everywhere -- but allows the states to set rules on how they will be handled.
+ The pans need to be rattled after this, it is absolutely outrageous. People really should hear about this, and realize how low these people are.
+ procecution and I want jail time for those responsible if this is true, its time for hardball for those that practice anti-democratic activities in our country especially during election procedures. PEACE! ABB&B!!! KERRY/EDWARDS 2004
+ Regularly happens in suburbia. Watched it happened in the PA-15th in 2000. At the same time goons (apparently from the NRA) were ripping down signs for the dem candidates. The tighter the district the more thuggish the tactics from the right.
+ This makes me sick. I've thought about doing voter registration and thought, what if a Republican registers? And I thought, well, I can't control that - As much as I disagree, I wouldn't want to throw that out. I guess I'm a wimp. Or a good American!!!!
+ When you do the right thing for the right reason, you ARE a good American...and a good person as well. Last month I went door-to-door doing VR in a very upscale area. Met a woman that was concerned about getting an absentee ballot to her son in college...he was Repub, as was she. So I helped her. Had some info on how to request absentee ballots on me...also gave her the # to the Broward County Supv of Elections to make sure her son got the form in time. At the end she just stared at me and said "Thank you for your help, but I have to ask you...why are you being so helpful when you know my son and I will be voting against Kerry"? So I told her what I told you, David. Having the right to vote and to have your voice heard is the right of every American...no matter which party you belong to or what your views are. And especially given the debacle of the 2000 Election here in South Florida, I am very sensitive about making sure every voice is heard....plus, it's just the right thing to do.
+ Tonight on the Majority Report (Air America), Sam Sedar made the point that Democrats believe we have a moral obligation to help other people even if it doesn't advance our interest. I wish I could say that he's wrong and that both parties hold that principle. Unfortunately, the objective evidence keeps proving him right. Thank you for doing the right thing. I keep believing that more people will be attracted to a party that does the right thing than one that cheats & lies to win.
+ ...is that when I'm told I'm registering a Republican and I say "That's OK - I'm here to register people to vote, and everybody should exercise that right", they act like I've poured boiling water on them and scurry away as fast as they can. I still haven't registered a Republican yet. ;-)
+ although i was doing it under the auspices of a nonpartisan student group. the student just came up to me, said they'd like to register to vote, i gave her the form, and she suddenly volunteered, "i'm a republican, but of course i'm not gonna vote for bush." the way i see it, even if you do register republicans, there's always the hope that you can convince them to swing back. destroying reg. forms is utterly execrable. in a just world, all citizens would automatically be registered, election day would be a mandatory holiday, and voting would be mandatory, same as paying taxes or getting a driver's license to drive. basic citizenship 101.
+ but maybe they run away because they've heard from other Rethugs not to sign up with a Democrat because you'll get your form ripped up--just like how they operate. "Projection" ain't a river in Egypt, or something.
+ I stil drive nice knowing i have a Kerry sticker on my car, but I keep geting cut off by pickups with Bush stickers on them - go figure.
+ says: Bush Lied - Many Died De-select Bush - 2004 Within a week of putting it on my car someone snapped the radio antenna at it's base. Go figure.
+ Some republicants think people that "do the right thing" are weak/ stupid. "If you believe your mission is right then the means justify the end." I don't disagree that we (Democrats)believe we have a moral obligation to help others "even if it doesn't advance our interest". But when "push comes to shove" we damn well better know if we don't have the fortitude to do what it takes we have less than 50-50 chance to have 51%-controlling interest in WashingtonDC on 03 November 2004.
+ vanguish the self-doubt, and do what it takes to succeed. I have no problem with hitting back hard when attacked by the Repugs, etc. I'm not for rolling over for anyone. I'm proud that the vast majority of Dems seem to have this exact mindset now and its none too soon.
+ are a mensch. After all of the bile and outrage this thread has bubbled up inside me, reading your post made me feel good again. Thanks.
+ ...and reading your blog made me feel good after being sick all day...what goes around comes around!
+ the right to vote is fundamental, and thoroughly American. none of us should be satisfied until all of those who are elligible to vote, do vote, every election. our political process and results would be so much better. just because GOTV is political leverage this year, doesn't mean that you shouldn't help everyone, regardless of political opinion, navigate the voting process. in California, for example, voter registration pointers are easy, but there's 20 propositions on the ballot - so i point people to www.smartvoter.org for an information tool, etc. when it comes to voting, we're all Americans. that's why this voter fraud is so criminal -- it attacks our fundamental right to vote. btw, look at our history, we have six Constitutional admendments on voting that span 200 years: 12th electoral college (1804), 15th race (1870), 17th senators by popular vote (1913), 19th women (1920), 24th no poll tax (race - 1964), 26th youth (1971). women have only had the right to vote for 80 years; many non-whites couldn't vote until the mid-60s -- and STILL face barriers as we see today; youth couldn't vote until 30 years ago, but have terrible turnout rates.  now, i contend that these voter registration methods are artificial barriers that could be removed if we designed more appropriate election systems.  the ideas are out there, we only have to support them.
+ That's the first question I have. This is the computer age, after all. If you show a driver's license or other state-issued photo ID, it should be child's play to look it up in the state database (complete with digital photo), detirmine "yep, that's him!", punch him into another state database as having voted in this election (at which point he gets rejected if he already voted) and let'em vote. Virtually everybody has a driver's license or state ID card of some sort. You can't drive, open a bank account, cash a check, or do a miriad of other things without one. Why the constant insistence upon disenfranchising people via making them jump over yet another artificial hurdle? And before talking about "well, certain people shouldn't be able to vote" -- why? What public good is served by keeping people from voting? While I might rub my hands in glee at the notion of requiring potential voters to pass a test on basic statistical reasoning prior to voting (that way ignoramuses who think Bush's 450 billion dollar deficit is no big deal wouldn't be able to vote), in reality, democracy is best served when ALL vote -- even people I don't like, or people whose immigration status is uncertain, or etc. (the latter aren't likely to vote anyhow, so why worry about explicitly excluding them?!). Registering to vote was a fine idea prior to the creation of a de-facto national identification card (the driver's license -- all the DMV's are now linked or shortly shall be, and the state trooper who stops you in Colorado can or will shortly be able to look up your DMV record in Florida to verify that you're a licensed driver), but now that we have the national identification card, why not use that as a voter registration card? Curious penguins want to know! - Badtux the Curious Penguin
+ I inadvertently registered some Republicans at the barn where I ride. I had made a big speech about these girls getting registered and then it turned out they were Republicans. I then followed through and helped them register, telling them my views on the candidates and why, after Florida, I believed in everyone geting a vote. (They didn't remember Florida, the poor fools.) I slept well, but earned the respect of about six people who were looking on. (There may be a special hell for me one day, I fear, for registering them, but it was the right thing to do after I had gotten the ball rolling.)
+ I've done GOTV and the idea is that people vote, not that you only register one party. Just like people have a right to free speech, they should be registered. If someone I knew was a Republican wanted to register, I'd help them because this is a country where one man or woman and one vote matters more than almost anything else. The place to win people over is with the campaign, not at the registration table.
+ Register all. Voting is more important than party. That's the lesson we have imparted to our kids. Vote in EVERY election, even school board and city council. It all matters.
+ "The company has been largely, if not entirely funded, by the Republican National Committee. Similar complaints have been received in Reno where the registrar has asked the FBI to investigate."
+ That was line that made my head explode.
+ let's find a RICO statute to hit them with... any prosecuters out there?
+ ...you'd have to have witnesses inside the RNC, or someone at the top of this shill company who had contact with them. It's all too easy to perpetuate criminal conspiracies if you layer them right. So, RICO prosecution before the eletion? No way. But, I do like the words "voting fraud conspiracy" and "RNC" being bounced around the media echo chamber until Nov. 2. Good enough to get the NV cops to bust the company, expose their ties, have it on the evening news. (Believe me, I'd love the RICO case - I'm always trying to convince my bosses to file them. But they're damn hard)
+ watch out Oregon: the story says this same firm is now operating in Oregon.
+ ....today is the dealine for voter registration here in Oregon. Then again, you can't go two blocks in downtown Portland without running into an ACT person, and Multnomah County is swimming in new voter registrations.
+ It'll be worth 5 in the can, even if Bush wins, to find the managers of this group when they squat here, and greet them with the ball-striking end of my five-iron... One swing for each disenfranchised Democrat. They'll have to arrest them, if only to keep them safe from the wrath of this American veteran. I swear to God.
+ I'm sending George W. Bush back to Texas!!!! (filling out my OHIO absentee ballot!)
+ way to go
+ http://tbrnews.org/Archives/a1130.htm October 10, 2004: "This time, friends, I have some very important news for all of you. Unlike the usual silly gossip that goes on around the White House, intermingled with loud praying, this is really news. We are about to embark on another war! Yes, it has been decided and carefully planned. Who are we going to war with? Iran.... ...The entire attack is scheduled to last no more than one hour with at least three waves of Israeli aircraft utilized. No warning will be given to the Iranians and no declaration of war. The possible deaths of foreign diplomats in the attacks has been discussed and accepted as part of the price. This attack has the full support of the President who wants it launched before the elections.
+ ...this is the "October Surprise"?
+ Because the joke's probably on the administration. I just don't see people getting on board with yet ANOTHER war. And how are they going to rationalize it?
+ It will probably be strictly air attacks. Just enough, they hope, to get the "rally around the President" effect? If Kerry pulls too far ahead, they'll have nothing to lose by trying it.  And a lot of moderate, intelligent people think we'll have to bomb Iran eventually. If we don't do it, Israel will. And us doing it will piss off the Arabs less than Israel doing it.
+ ...because the media wouldn't treat it as a great victory. Instead, it would be seen as a cynical ploy that might put our forces in Iraq at further risk and that would definitely piss off the Europeans, even the Brits, who want better trade relations with Iran. And I won't even go into the outrage that will happen if we use forces based in Turkey... And what happens if the Iranians target our support aircraft and shoot one or more of them down? 
+ A few thoughts on this rumor, which is about all it rises to: This source seems pretty credible to me, even if this seems like a totally insane story. However, we have heard a lot of things that turned out to be true later, and the level of our disgust and wonderment over the levels that Republicans will stoop to never wanes. This website has nothing but negative Bush articles on it back as far as I can see. That said, I offer the introduction to the above piece: TBR News October 11, 2004 Voice of the White House In recent past issues, we have carried comments from a reporter assigned to the White House press corps. Some of these remarks, most especially one about Bush's physical and mental problems, drew an enormous number of viewers and hundreds of inquiries, most especially from foreign press entities. The reporter advised us by email that there was rampant fury in the White House and security was becoming very tight. As a result of this, he decided to lay low for a few weeks and see how the wind was blowing. Yesterday, he sent us the following material which we are now posting. Some of it is outrageous in the extreme but to date, no one has proven him wrong. Our source was the first to expose and we were the first to make public, the accusations that the President of the United States was a man that suffered from serious psychological problems. Since our initial publication of what we call the Madness of King George, there has been increasing interest in the subject and herewith, we present additional input from inside the White House. Remember, the messenger could be as uninformed in terms of military equipment or other intricacies of inter-country relations or the possibility of one plane not being able to land on another country's aircraft carrier. I would only say that the following is how it could happen, even if this guy is a paranoid who is scared to even speak up. Israel is an ally of the US, of course. Mid-air refueling would not make it too difficult to go to Iran and back. We probably have a few spare KC-135's hanging around between Israel and Iran. As for the comment that if Israel had a base in Qutar (sp, sorry), the United States has their regional command center there and ran the war from there, didn't they? (CENTCOM) I have no problem calling this a rumor, but I would not discount any lengths this group would go to in order to further their agenda and win the election. Mark
+ Look. You don't need mid-air refuelling for Israeli aircraft if they can land in any Iraqi airfield they choose. Just like you don't need aircraft carriers. This is logistically perfectly possible.
+ Really, really bad. Israeli planes using US airbases in Iraq to resupply before/after attacking Iran? I suspect the Shi'a would be...upset. Allow me to be blunt: you think you are taking causualties now?
+ They don't need Shi'a airfields. They just need US-controlled airfields. Who is going to know what airfields they use anyway? Like, are there independent people on the ground who check which aircraft arrive and depart from US airbases in Iraq? Heck, nobody's ever going to know. Are we taking casualties now? No. But I'll bet that BushCo is quite prepared to double before they ever quit.
+ I was trying to bolster your post by trying to be reasonable. It won't happen again. Stop arguing with me. And as for all that aircraft carrier/planes/bases stuff? Been there, done that from 1975-79 in the United States Navy. I just thought your post deserved to not be discounted out of hand. Mark
+ Oh, sorry. It won't happen again.
+ Where are they supposed to get the troops from?
+ At least, no "boots on the ground." I don't think they'll be going for occupation or even "regime change." Just the bombing of their nuclear facilities, like Israel did to Saddam. We're not using the Air Force in Iraq much, if at all. We've got plenty of manpower to launch air attacks, and that's all that would be needed.
+ I think it will look like an act of insanity rather than some solid move from a "Steady Leader". That move would be a complete catastrophy...........if not just absolutly criminal in the "special place in hell for you G-Dub" kind of way. Fuck us running if we bomb Iran in the next 20 days..............
+ ...about Bush's physical and mental problems, sounds similiar to stuff posted over at Capital Hill Blue. Ugh. Doesn't Bush realize this will cause Iran to invade Iraq (and possibly Afghanistan), plus launch direct strikes against Israel? (Assuming this is anything close to legit.)
+ If we went ahead and hit Iran like that, you could bet that the Arab push BACK at us is gonna start in Iran and spread to its neighbors......I think if that happens its gonna be very very ugly. Anyone remember the words to the Dead Kennedys song "When ya get drafted"?
+ iranians are not arabs.
+ ...Bush comes on your TV...all channels...6PM central time zone...about 2am Iran time...My fellow Americans, tonight I ordered strategic bombing of nuclear WMD facilities in another member-country of the axis of evil, Iran. We have absolute-positive-intelligence that Iran has secretly been preparing to invade the southern border of the US, etc...
+ Put this in a diary if you can and cite some sources, or else we have to assume you are just trying to distract us with a scare tactic. What are your sources?
+ I'm not trying to bury it. And I gave the source. I'm a new poster on Kos, and the only thing I know how to do is post comments. I don't even know what a diary is. I found the story on an Ohio talkboard a few hours back, and it immediately struck me as entirely plausible, because I think BushCo is entirely capable of something like this. If you guys give it the thumbs down, so be it. But I'm no FReeper.
+ I'm pretty sure I first found this story on the Akron Beacon Journal talk board. But going back, I can't find the post that referred to it. But pretty much all the post did was to point to http://tbrnews.org/Archives/a1130.htm ...which I then read with horror.
+ The owners of TBRNews refuse to list their info. Site I went to also said "connection limit reached. Lookup refused." Anybody else got TBRNews.org info? This whole Israeli fighters off of US carriers thing is ludicrous. No F/A-18s or -14s in Israeli inventory.
+ From Friday, August 20, 2004 IHT http://tbrnews.org/Archives/a1130.htm Information clearing house-8-29 http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article6808.htm And this from non other than the Heritage foundation: http://www.heritage.org/Press/Commentary/ed092904b.cfm And Altrnet: http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/20046/ I don't know if we should connect the dots or not, I'll post a diary, see what happens.
+ ...the power of the original post is the claim that the attack on Iran: will occur before the election will be passed off as an Israeli undertaking has already been approved These are the parts of this thread that seem unbelievable. I know damn well that Doug Feith is probably capable of anything as far as militant Zionism is concerned. But answer me this: Why would Feith have to use an intermediary (Lawrence Franklin) to pass policy docs to Israel if a joint strike on Iran had already been planned and approved in time for the election? Karen Kwiatkowski said that Israeli generals had been in and out of the Office of Special Plans throughout her time there. The strike plan, if it existed, would have already been in Israeli possession if they'd been privy to OSP proceedings as far back as when Kwiatkowski was there. What would the need be for the involvement of AIPAC or Naor Gilon at the Israeli Embassy? It just doesn't gel with what we know about the level of joint planning that involves the Israelis. Add to this the fact that the current military brass DESPISES wonks like Feith, Wurmser and Wolfowitz -- which would add a layer of molasses to their master plan -- and I doubt you've got an operation that might be days away. Is there a strike plan drawn up against Iran? Absolutely. Will it be the October surprise? The next two weeks will tell, but I doubt it.
+ Your lack of sources, the off topic nature of this, makes me really suspicious of the purpose of this post. People have been saying in the right wing channels that they need to start rumors on democratic blogs that will get people all hysterical. (Oh, they think they can't "misunderestimate" us.)  Give us your sources, man! This is big if it has sources.
+ But a losing proposition.
+ The person who wrote this needs to use Google. You cannot fly Israeli aircraft off of a US carrier. Cannot be done. The landing gear would rip right off when they tried to take off, forget land. Those planes off the deck would probably crash into the sea before they climbed. Besides, what would the US do when 100,000 Iranians cross the Iraqi frontier and give our thousands of weapons in Sadr City? Think Korea, 1950. Bush would endanger the national security of the US, since we could lose one, maybe two combat divisions as we retreated under fire. This is technically not possible and unlikely.
+ The way I read the story, it didn't involve Isaeli planes taking off from US aircraft carriers, but flying direct from Israel (and possibly refuelling in Iraq).
+ ...because here's what it says: Since it would be a problem for Israeli Air Force units to fly round trip from Israel, the solution will be to launch these attacks from U.S. aircraft carriers located in the Persian Gulf area.
+ The way I read that segment, it meant that carrier-borne US aircraft would carry out most of the mission, with a few Israeli aircraft initiating the attack so as to allow it to be called an Israeli operation.
+ Israel has no aircraft carriers and, as a direct result, no carrier qualified aircraft or pilots. If they had said a ground base in Qatar it might be possible, but not a carrier strike.
+ TBRNews.org? WTF is that?
+ with Europe right now over Iran nuke issues , I seriously doubt even he would do something this stupid ..
+ ...why stop now? However, the source is mega-sketchy.
+ You mean Bushie is resorting to diplomacy in order to deal with Iran? Wow. What about the Project for New American Century? I bet Kristol will get very pissy if Bush isn't planning to screw all allies and invade Iran at once. This Nevada thing just is another example of GOP tactics. The odd thing though is, that the race is dead heat, yet the repukes behave like they're losing by 30 points. Obviously, republicans have problems with democracy.
+ This is the same site who ran a conspiracy theory that the WTC towers were destroyed by plasmoid clouds... ... and that Hurricane Ivan was a secret Bushco plot to place Florida under military law.  I'm not sure if they were really serious about this stuff or not... but it would place these new allegations in a different context. The probability of a full-blown Israeli air attack on Iran is quite low. It's nothing but a right-wing pipe dream.
+ For one thing, the Israelis are probably capable of doing the job on their own, no direct US military involvement required.
+ ...that this is not true. Given the fact that so much has already leaked (if true), then if the administration was insane enough to use Israel as a proxy to attack Iran (and Israel would find it difficult to refuse, given how much aid they receive) can anyone imagine what the reaction of the Arab world in general, and the Iraqi Shiites in particular, would be? I can -- but (again, if true) this is clearly a tactical move for short-term advantage in the election, and damn the long-term consequences (which would be a firestorm of anti-American attacks which would doom any attempt to make Iraq, Iran, or anywhere else in the Middle East any kind of democracy at all). (Disclaimer: I lived in the Middle East for a paltry 10 years, so my uneducated perspective undoubtedly is far more naive than that of the illustrious neocons who conceived this idiocy).
+ Believe me, I do.
+ Everyone on this thread seems to be questioning the validity of these claims. This stuff is common knowledge -- I've heard about this on NPR, and a quick google search turns up loads of information. This is going to happen, folks.
+ Maybe someone could post a diary? I googled Israel Iran war, and got quite a number of references in recent weeks discussing the possiblity.
+ about something so easily checked? Channeling Cheney?
+ A diary can be used to authenticate the news source, bringing it to others attention, other Kossacks can attest to the veracity of the information on TBR news. I did a google search on the information and uncovered multiple other news sources covering the same issue, including several conservative sources, Foxnews even speculated on the issue. So no I do not think it is necessarily a lie. A possible war with Iran is not out of play, it is the prime reason many people fear a draft could be forthcoming. If you know TBR news to be of doubtful use, then say so, calling me a liar does not cut it.
+ 'Nuff said...
+ ...when King Rusty couldn't get the comment searching working. I sincerely apologize for posting for the first time, I didn't realize Google corrupted the echo chamber. I'll go back to lurking.
+ allowing anyone with ID to vote if they say they registered, this is Nazi stuff and I for one would never concede an election to these thugs anymore.
+ on this has a lot of info already. At the bottom of the tv news article is a link to the actual video of the story. The group taught their petitioners ways to avoid registering dems. They also destroyed a bunch of receipts which would have allowed the people to vote.
+ in Norwegian Chef's diary which is currently at the top of "recommended."
+ "The I-Team has obtained information about an alleged widespread pattern of potential registration fraud aimed at democrats. Thee focus of the story is a private registration company called Voters Outreach of America, AKA America Votes. The America Votes Coalition- http://www.AmericaVotes.org these guys do good work.
+ This situation (I'm sure there are many others like this just waiting to surface on election day) makes me truly sad for the state that our country is in. To maliciously deny anyone's legal right to vote... when people are dying to give Iraqis that right (whether we agree or not) just disgusts me. The men who founded this country must be rolling over in their graves.
+ Ugh. I hate to say this, but I almost expected this kind of stuff was happening. By the way - if ACT tried to pull any of this, I'd be just as pissed at them. A vote is a vote. This is why we need non-partisan government oversight of elections and especially registration. Hopefully this story will get enough play so people who thought they had registered will have time to re-register. Does Nevada have provisional ballots? Cause it sounds like they're going to need a bunch of them.
+ hahaha "Take it from me, I love you!"
+ that the post-2000 Florida debacle voting bill calls for the use of provisional ballots in all 50 states, at least for federal elections. This means that if a person is not on the registration roll, but that person has filled out and submitted a registration application to an authorized person or deposited it in the US mail, a provisional ballot must be provided for that voter's use. We can argue over whether the ballot should be counted later, if necessary, but at least we have that voter's ballot in the box.
+ Nevada actually passed legislation implementing the Help America Vote Act, which required that every state actually pass its own implementing statute. Does anyone know if it went through? My own home state of NY did not pass anything, by the way.
+ Yes, there are provisional ballots, I summarized the statutes below. It looks like a lot of red tape but I suspect it's not as bad as it looks.
+ for federal elections. States can't deny the right to provisional ballots in federal elections. How to enforce it is another matter. But you can certainly argue it toe-to-toe with a local elections official at the right time.
+ Yes, Nevada does have provisional ballots.
+ This is why is should be absolutely illegal to require people to declare a party when registering to vote. This couldn't have happened if we had a truly secret ballot. What party you belong to should be between you and the party, and should never be required by the state to vote. I really hope this thing can be sorted out before the election, and that people won't be disenfranchised by these scummy tactics.
+ I would assume putting down party affiliation is always an option, not a requirement. On the other hand, I suppose in this case the company would use "identity by omission" and just nix anyone who didn't put down "Rethug".......
+ I live in Washington State, where there would be a revolution if people were required to state political party in order to register. Because of that, it seems utterly insane to me for a voter registration form to have any indication of political party whatsoever on it. This simply couldn't happen in Washington. They wouldn't know which registrations to shred.
+ I'm from WA, too, and have voted absentee for I won't say how many donkey's years. I think registering by party is terrible. I know it helps in the primaries, and in the old days was probably important. But if I were registering today in a state that required indicating party preference, I probably wouldn't. It's not their damn business to know.
+ who have no business knowing your party affiliation. Because if you're willing to state your party preference publicly, as I do proudly, the Party would certainly want to know who you are. We would want to know so that we can identify people to help us organize the Party, for example. I just don't see why it is a big deal to state your party preference if you are willing to be so identified. Most nigh everyone on this site is willing to do so on this forum. Why not on a public form?
+ I have no problem being a loud and proud Democrat on a "public form". It's these private firms' private forms that worry me.
+ ... people registering others to vote who might tear up my registration because I didn't register as a GOP. If you want to join a party, you tell the party. There is no reason whatsoever for the state to know what party I belong to. If they want me to indicate a party in order to vote in the primaries, well, I'll live with it. But to have that on record? No way. Whatever happened to "secret ballot"? My party preference is between me and the party and is nobody else's business.
+ the problems. the problem comes from privatizing what should be state functions; yet another reason why privatization isn't always the way to go: accountability and transparency that would be required of the government can be rather easily subverted by a private entity.
+ then these Goopers will do time. Defrauders such as these will be deterred, and civic minded groups like ACT, and Lague of Women Voters can help enfranchise Americans.
+ If you have to be registered as a Democrat at the time you vote in the party primary, then the D election judge needs to know that you are so registered. Otherwise, Republicans could come in and vote in a D primary. and tip the balance to "their" candidate. In the November general election you of course vote for whatever party candidate you wish, regardless of what party primary you voted in, or what party preference you may be identified as on the voter rolls. But identifying ourselves by party is key if we are to maintain party ideology in our candidates, and maintain any integrity in our primary process.
+ The latest Washington primary sent out a ballot upon which you selected your party for that election only, and voted only in the races for that party. There is absolutely no reason for the state to keep that information. It's not vital to have that information to allow people to vote.
+ an "open primary" where you can decide what primary to vote in at the last minute. In that case you're right, the state has no reason to know your party preference until you ask for your primary ballot. I prefer "closed primaries" where you have to be registered as a democrat for at least 30 days in order to vote in our primary. It keeps the Rs out of our election process to some extent. In that case, the state official needs to have a record of your party preference on the roll, in order to determine which primary you are eligible to vote in.
+ Washington used to be even more "open". Until it was thown out by the Federal Courts we had a blanket primary since 1930. This meant that not only did you not have to state a party when you registered, but that you didn't have to pick a party on your primary ballot. For each race you were allowed to vote for the canidate you wanted regardless of party. The complaint from the parties about this was that it allowed people to crossover and interfere in specific races. However if one looks at the data from past elections in Washington there are few examples of this. For example Crasswell (an extreme wing-nut) won the 1996 Republican primary for Governor on her own merits (or lack therof) and not due to democratic voters crossing over. There is an initative on the November ballot to switch our primary to a Louisiana style system. There are some differences from LA though, first canidates will have a party listed next to their name, second the primary will be in September not November so there will be no December run-off elections, third the top two canidates for any office will both advance to the General election even if one gets more than 50% of the votes. Personally I'll be voting for the "cajun" primary even if the parties are against it (The Democratic, Republican, Libertarian, and Green parties all support keeping our new this year "open" primary).
+ is so you can vote in the Primaries. I know that some states allow you to vote in Primaries regardless of your Party affiliation, but that is prone to fraud. If that were allowed nation-wide in this past election, the Republicans (knowing that Bush was guaranteed the nomination) could have easily made Lieberman or Braun the Democratic nominee.
+ I'm an Independent voter.
+ ...is always an option, although that usually means that you can't vote in the primaries. Some states allow you to change you allifiation the day of the election, though. All rules vary state to state.
+ In Texas, where we have open primaries, the Rs have often hijacked our primaries by voting for their "preffered" democratic candidate. It results in forcing D candidates to take and hold R positions. I yearn for the days when you couldn't vote in our primary unless you were at least willing to identify yourself as a D.
+ caucuses, state conventions, local party elections, etc. There are more than a few reasons to record party identification. And is it really too ridiculous to require that the party nominee be determined by members of the party?
+ party affiliation doesn't appear on the registration form. When you vote in the primary they stamp the party on your ID card so you can get into the caucus meeting and names are recorded, but the registrar doesn't care.
+ party affiliation is optional in nv
+ party is optional but you have to be registered to a certain party to vote in the primaries for said party. and it's hard to switch and then switch back. I learned the hard way -- changed my party in January ahead of the primaries and found out later that my party change doesn't go into affect until after the Nov. election. It discourages switching but also locked me out of the primary.
+ Only registered Democrats can vote in the Democratic primaries, etc. (I think)
+ We need to track down where this group is RIGHT NOW in each state and warn the media, the democratic party and whoever else we can tell.
+ what other states have been so abused, so that the Party can file suit and ensure that defrauded voters in these states get to cast their ballots.
+ with the link above and send the story by email (even if it is just to yourself) to show the station how important the story is. 
+ Who should I be writing to right now? Someone has to pay for this. -fink
+ It probably won't help, but I submitted the story to CNN's news tip thingy. I don't know if anyone else has similar features, but I'm going to start looking. This is disgusting. 
+ Just sent the story via their tipline @ cnn.com. Hope they catch on quick.
+ I kinda figured that the whole Diebolt thing wouldn't really work. What I mean by that is, if a precinct usually votes democratic and all of a sudden this year with their new Diebolt machine they all voted Rethug it would be obvious that the machine was rigged. It would be easy to zero in on the fraud. Now this scam would add a new layer of fraud to the electronic machine fraud. Is George planning a 99% Sadaam like landslide vote for himself? What are we going to do on Nov 3 if these zealot a**wholes steal this election?
+ but if a close district or state (like Florida) were to go Republican, who would know the difference? We'll always have the San Francisco and the Black Caucus, I guess.
+ Just add 3-4% or enough to push it over and not be too blatant. This is also why I am little leery of totally popular voting countrywide. ANd totally againsy electronic no-receipt stuff. Heck, the machine should print an optical ballot that can be okd by the voter and that IS the ballot. I know, Sorry about being sensible. I live in Washington, and liked open primaries.  Many people have a party identification, but few are members in any active sense.
+ A random but equal number of Republican voter registration forms should be shredded. It is only fair. Sure....prosecute. Months after the election. But the damage is done NOW. We need to have a campaign to expose, denounce and reverse this. Don't just prosecute, execute - as in take action to reverse this. There should be pressure put on state officials to allow for a reversal of this. And the national press should blast this all over the front page.
+ ...sort of like pairing the votes of absent members of Congress.
+ The moment we sink to the level of the rethugs, we have no moral ground. I know this was a joke, but some readers may take this seriously.
+ is a synonym for continuous loss of elections and a perpetual existence as the whinning class. I want to win!!!
+ by disenfranchising people. yes we resist - no we don't cheat.  Becoming the enemy only means the enemy won. which ties into other discussions we've had today - I think we SHOULD be "uncomfortable" with outing people and using divorce records. We SHOULD USE THEM when legit - what we shouldn't do is cross the line - as the GOoOpers do - into making shit up. We should be "uncomfortable" with it - because that's the check that keeps us honest with ourselves. We don't go scorched earth when we don't have to. We don't hurt the innocent. We don't make shit up and we don't go gutter when it's not needed - but we DO expose hypocrisy and fight fire with fire. But by Gawd if we go out to register voters and a Republican uses our service we REGISTER that republican because it's the right thing to do.  There are more of us. Our issues win when the playing field is level. We don't have to cheat. We do have to fight. Which means we nail these bastards in NV to the wall - AND we work like hell to let people know that they need to check if they're registered. I'm angry - and I'm fighting back - but I'm not a hate filled cheating lying gooper.
+ Goddamit no! Wrong, bad, don't even joke about it. You're talking about comitting a crime and an absolutely un-american, anti-american, unethical, anti-democratic, bad, bad thing. Super-troll ratings and maybe jail time for anyone who suggests it. Knock it off.
+ Already did that.
+ Seriously. There's already a mechanism for dealing with this in the election system -- it's called provisional ballots. In California, for example, it's clearly stated in your "voter's bill of rights" -- it's #2, in fact. This isn't widespread knowledge and it should be. The Help America Vote Act of 2002 deals explicitly with provisional balloting. The problem is that it's an extra hurdle for the voter to jump through, and it's another exposure to voter fraud for them.
+ I can't say I'm surprised. This state is turning blue, and the Repubs are running scared -- especially of the ground game. Since Kerry's up big in CA, the NV Democrats are getting a lot of help from their neighbors. This is a state that only went for Clinton because of the Perot Factor. They really didn't expect to have this kind of fight on their hands. DMt
+ "running scared" and playing dirty.
+ these fucktards consider themselves to be Americans. And I'm really curious where they came to that conclusion. Bush/Cheney: A Different Vision For America -- Mussolini's
+ Cons intentionally subvert democracy, and they have the gall to say that libs are traitors??? I went on multiple voter registration drives in Pennsylvania, and although we obviously focused on likely Democratic neighborhoods, we were absolutely scrupulous about helping ANYONE who wanted to register. FWIW, my totals were about 40% Dem, 40% Ind, 20% Rep. People who go out of their way to prevent others from voting ... GRRRR. In all seriousness this time: WHY DO THE REPUBLICANS HATE AMERICA SO MUCH?
+ Nevada needs to do this: Massive publicity, telling people, if you registered but you have not received your voter registration card you need to re-register. If the deadline has passed, they need to make an exception for anyone who signs an affidavit that they attempted to register but their forms were not turned in. On election day, they need to make provisional ballots available to be combined with the aforementioned affidavit. Anyone who signs the affidavit and whose registration would otherwise be valid, their vote counts. Now, can we make that happen?
+ as an action alert and let's get rolling on it.
+ I don't know what an action alert is, though, haven't been here that long. Tell me how?
+ I am kinda new to this also, so best to just ask for help, perhaps. people on this blog are very smart. An action alert basically has all the links for where you can contact people, and even ideas about what content to go for. You then click the links and get to the numbers and websites you need. It is very effective. This blog works because everyone does the work for the whole community. You just take on a little piece of the work by getting some info and get it out there as an action alert. (I also send them to a small e-mail list I keep of my friends.)
+ The article says this firm has moved to Oregon. We need to get them investigated there too... and anywhere else they've operated.
+ Shed the light on this, get the story out. When people are angry, they vote. Personally, I think we need to shame every group associated with these slimeballs. If they really are GOP-funded, we need to get this scandal on air.
+ And if it's not, then the law should be changed. These folks should be incarcerated for the rest of their lives.
+ 10/11/2004 Republicans Resign Over Questionable Absentee Ballot Applications Tonight six people connected with the South Dakota republican party have resigned over questions surrounding absentee ballot applications. The state director of the Republican Victory Program, Larry Russell is one of them, along with state republican party employee Eric Fahrendorf. Four independent contractors involved with the absentee ballot applications also resigned. They are Joe Alick, Nathan Mertz, Todd Schlekeway and Rachel Hoff. Hoff was the notary whose signature and seal appeared on many applications from KELOLAND college students. But several students say only men were there when they filled out the forms. Mount Marty student Cassandra Herout says, "All I know is they were gonna have the form notarized or audited or something before they sent it in. She was never present at all." Now the party has a lot of paperwork to sort out. Many absentee ballot applications are what led to a half dozen resignations. The people involved in securing the forms may not have always made sure a commissioned notary witnessed the voters' signatures. In a statement, party executive director Jason Glodt says, "The South Dakota Republican Party has a zero tolerance policy regarding such matters, and on Friday and Saturday of last week accepted the resignations of the four independent contractors who were involved in the handling of absentee ballot requests" The party also accepted Larry Russell's resignation. Russell was defeated by Larry Diedrich in the republican primary this winter in the race for Congress. Since then he's been directing the party's "get out the vote" efforts. But the party says students who filled out these applications should still be able to vote. Glodt says, "It is our understanding that because all of the information submitted by the voters is true and correct, all of the ballots will be counted. We are taking additional steps to ensure that each of these legitimate requests are counted." In the next few days, GOP party members will contact each voter who requested an absentee ballot through the party. They will ask for photocopies of their IDs as a legal alternative to notarization. Glodt says, "Because absentee ballots do not require notarization, it is unfortunate that these questions have diverted attention from legitimate requests by qualified voters." Glodt says the party has been in contact with the secretary of state and attorney general and will cooperate with their investigation. http://keloland.com/NewsDetail2817.cfm?Id=22,35221 -- fascism: a system of government that exercises a dictatorship of the extreme right, TYPICALLY THROUGH THE MERGING OF STATE AND BUSINESS LEADERSHIP, together with a belligerent nationalism. The American Heritage Dictionary copyright 1973
+ It seems like the Republicans are going all out, and don't care if they get caught. Worse, it seems that they know they must cheat if they want to win... and they don't care if they get busted as long as it works. Look at Jeb with the voter purge list in FL, the stuff in SD, now this in NM. Democracy be dammed they are willing to lie, cheat, and steal to win this election. So far we've seen plenty of lying and cheating. Watch out come Nov....
+ The Republican Party is nothing more than what the Nazi Party was in 1932... We need to end this madness now...
+ This is a whole new sect. What is disturbing is the number of people that have blindly signed on without thinking about what's really happening. I like what Sam said tonight on the Majority Report. He called the Rethugs the American Taliban. I think the NEW Republicans are what Wohabism is to the Muslims.  The New Republicans are and new EXTREME sect of the olde party.
+ sorry for the misspell.
+ for the American public to consider.Bush should be called a Dogma Spitting Ideologue. Who was the last angry, little, fear mongering, world leader that fit that description?
+ until we hear from individual Republicans disavowing such tactics by their own party, they are all guilty by association. After all, how many "mainstream" Germans were silent while the Nazis turned their country into a facist state?
+ OT- Just felt the need to say that. My 24 year old nephew, who is a Marine in Fallujah right now, is all the things you are, and it always grates on me when people assume that those first three attributes = Republican. If you care to look, it's pretty easy to see who the real men and women are in this country, especially up against the damned squawking Chickenhawks and Ann Coulter shrews.
+ This is very true. Those who know a little of German History can relate to this well. The same rhetoric, the same policy, and the same deceptions. And the same goals. Sad we don't learn enough about history. I advise all of us to have several history books in your library always. Be mindful and weary of them too. Because the way they are written might justify the status quo. But you would be intelligent enough to notice this. Anyhow, the point is that we can look for references in history to understand our present. That does not mean that History repeats itself, but that there are patterns of human behavior that can be better understood on the hindsight--after a while, the effects of collective behaviors are clearly seen. And we cannot sleep calmly in our beds when we know that this administration has been using similar Nazi's strategies and methods to spread fascist's ideologies. We need to start with a historical base to understand the intellectual underpinnings of the invisible monster that threatens us.
+ ...should air the relevant footage of the shredded voter registration forms, complete with overdramatic music, to eviscerate the Rethugs in NV. Congratulations, Rethug front groups - you've just cost your candidate 5 electoral votes in an election where every one counts.
+ why these poeple should even be allowed to live is because I don't support the death penalty, they are treasonous.
+ The GOP was behind this - everything we need to know was in that report. Someone save the news video. We have to get that around.
+ SomeoneFound this on Career Builder: DESCRIPTION $8.50/hr part-time, $10.00/hr full-time Canvassing Neighborhoods in Support of the GOP! Voter's Outreach of America is hiring door-to-door canvassers asking people to register to vote. Must be at least 18 yrs of age, no felonies, registered to vote and have own transportation. Need good communication skills and professional appearance. Hours are 4pm to 8pm Monday-Friday and 8am to noon Saturday. Call toll free 702-307-1320 for more information. Paid for by the Republican National Committee. www.gop.com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee. Source - Reno Gazette Journal - Reno, NV REQUIREMENTS Please refer to the Job Description to view the requirements for this job
+ That is much, much higher than minimum wage. 
+ Post action alerts for this for us for every angle so we know what to do and we will get the forces in action. People will take this llike nothing we have seen. Let's get this in the papers tomorrow.
+ So the same company is reportedly helping him. Is that somehow illegal or unethical? Does it make him responsible for their actions in Reno? If a company willfully mischarges a client, do we blame it on another client? I don't agree with Nader's approach this year, but I do not understand all of the animosity pointed his way.
+ and this is really low. If Bush wins fair and square I can accept that (and then I'll move out of the country) but to win by taking away people's vote is total bullshit. Nevada is definitely a very strong candidate for going Blue in November. Record turnout during the spring caucus and a lot of Kerry/Edwards signs. If Bush cheats his wat into the Whitehouse like he did in 2000 your going to have a civil war.
+ this is an absolute attempt by the GOP to steal this election, unless every state where this group has operated immediately lets it be known any one can vote on election day, this election is a fraud and I would expect every Demn to say so when we take to streets to remove this scumbag from office.
+ is a rightwing rag but I will call them tommorow and cancel my subscription if this story is not prominently played, I urge everyone here to put pressure on them if they don't
+ now and these SOBs need to be put away for a long long time
+ I used to be so naive. A few years ago, I actually thought that in this day and age in America, we had the whole "fair elections" thing nailed down. Over the last 4 years, I've been constantly reminded how foolish my beliefs were.
+ This is how they used to run elections in the deep South (and still do in some places). guess who's running the Republican Party?
+ The "naive" and "honorable" dems assumed that the SCOTUS would be honorable; they were not. The "polite" dems assumed that Florida election officials wanted the true voting results; they did not.  Stakes are too high, awareness is too keen. We cannot see another election stolen
+ Are you on this one or what? I just got my ticket for Florida (10/26-11/3) - I will be with you in spirit too.
+ when passing this info to other news media, make sure the America Votes name is not mixed up in there. That article says its the same group, but AmericaVotes is a Dem org-and they should not get hit with any fall out from this!
+ Be sure to let them know it is America Votes, INC operated by the GOP as advertised on Career Builder. The outsourcing firm in Vegas just told me that ALL REGISTRATIONS were turned over to the GOP. He is calling Ch. 8 news to make this clear in Vegas.
+ I can't find a connection between America Votes and Voter Outreach. I think there was a mistake made by the reporter. Has anyone found a link between the two?
+ IMPORTANT! I just got off the phone with the labor firm who was outsourced to hire for the GOP in Vegas (I posted this earlier from Career Builder). He was EXTREMELY PISSED that this happened!!! In other words he told me that basically, they are an outsourcing firm. The person gave me the cell phone for Voters Outreach, Inc in Arizona. He also said that ALL of the registrations (ALL!) were turned over to the GOP!!! CELL NUMBER IN ARIZONA HE GAVE ME TO CONTACT VOTERS OUTREACH INC: 623-205-9169
+ ... to the appropriate prosecutor's office.
+ musing grace posted a national directory of America Votes on the earlier diary thread. I called the Portland Oregon number on the directory. A young woman named Jessica Hamilton picked up the phone at the number listed for Oregon. I put my old down home accent back on and said I was recruited at church to do voter registrations. The minute I said that, Hamilton wouldn't shut up. Said today was the deadline for voter registrations crews, but that they had crews out operating as we spoke. Said she was from North Carolina after I said I was originally from Virginia. Got me all set up to come in to help tomorrow as a matter of fact. They are expecting me to be in the office on the phones at 5pm ;) The big unanswered question remains just who does the office at 410 NE 18th Ave Portland OR belong to? I only have one source that says it's a local Bush/Cheney campaign office. Some help on this would be appreciated.
+ This America Votes, and its office at 410 NE 18th Ave in Portland, is not Republican.
+ Voter Information:NV Voter's Bill of Rights (No mention of Provisional Ballot) NV Help America Vote Act status (Talks about Provisional Ballot) Provisional Ballot status by State Contacts: Election NV County Clerks and Registrar of Voters NV Secretary of State - Elections division Contacts: Legal NV Attorney General - REPORT FRAUD 1-800-266-8688 NV Attorney General Offices Carson City (775) 684-1100Reno (775) 688-1818Las Vegas (702) 486-3420National Assn of Attorney Generals
+ check out this comment below -- NV does have provisional ballot in their statue (NRS 293.3081).
+ Thanks for taking the initiative.
+ I think I just spotted me some great recruits for the Iraqi front. Just be sure to put them all in the same unit with no real American soldiers nearby. I wouldn't want any humans harmed in the process.
+ groups. What if Kerry and the Democratic Party asked Bush and the Republicans if they would be willing to stand together in asking that all states allow a 1 week extension in voter registration? People who may have had their registration forms shredded by unscrupulous people from either party would have time to check if they were actually registered and correct any problems. Since we have some upward momentum in the polls, this should help us, and it's hard to think of a reasonable argument that the Repubs could come up with against it.
+ This seems like massive fraud to me - the kind that the Nevada Attorney General or some similar office should be looking into in the public interest. There's no question that anyone whose voter registration was shredded has relied on false promises to their detriment. Any Nevada lawyers on the board? Bueller?
+ This link has a form Clark County (Las Vegas) residents can use to find out if they are registered. Most counties have something like this now. It's probably not a bad idea to check on this even if you don't live in Nevada, especially if there's still time to register in your state.
+ Can you make this suggestion and give numbers people can call so they can do this and ideas about how to get the word out to epople in Nevada?
+ ...at all? It seems to me that this is pretty close to a core function of any government.
+ You gotta pay people to collect the forms and the government ain't exactly emptying their pockets. To my understanding, every entity that registers voters is private, from Rock the Vote and NAACP to the Christian Coalition.
+ Nobody paid me and the others to sit outside F911 for a week to register voters. Kerry meetup people have registered voters at many community events as well, although I haven't.
+ Even still there aren't enough volunteers to keep up with the address changes, party changes and millions of recently eligible voters (18-year-olds, new citizens, released convicts, etc.). And if I recall correctly, the event was organized by a 501(c)3 - MoveOn and others.
+ Other countries regard registration as a government responsibility--or else don't require it before eleciton day. Registration and residency requirements date to the period in US history from 1850-WWI, when the upper and middle classes were waging a war against mass democracy. There's no objective need for them--they simply serve to suppress the vote of less settled people, primarily those who are less affluent.
+ has unified rules for voting. The registration is done by public officials or by bi-partisan teams sworn to neutrality. Before we had the permanent voter list in Canada, we used to have a census-type registration process, where each home in the country was visited (at least once, sometimes more than once). It was organised at the precinct level, and two enumerators (one from each of the two main parties -- very often these two were operating the polling station as scrutineers) were required to register a voter. Receipts were given to the voters and a confirmation was mailed to them in time for three days of revision of the list, three weeks before the polls. A registration system where things are handled by partisan outfits and private business is scary and things such as what happened in Nevada is the sad, but predictable outcome of a bad system.
+ How else, other than by partisan-political-means, can you effectively prevent entire segments of the population from voting, be it non-white owning males, women, blacks, released criminals, etc.? It's a democratic system meant to be undemocratic. Over 200 years and a couple of civil wars and we still haven't fixed it.
+ The more people you have registering voters, the more registrations you'll get. I wouldn't want to put ACT or the local D party out of business, and rely on some gum-chewing burocrat to do this vital work.
+ It's hard to remember that we're the good guys. We're the ones who are supposed to be setting the example to show the world what is great about freedom and democracy. Sad. Just sad.
+ They've a hard time keeping him in check lately. He's been posting some stuff sympathetic to Kerry until the red phone rings(cough Karl Rove cough). I titled the email: VOTER REGISTRATIONS TRASHED IN VEGAS! and gave him the URL. Don't rule any options out in getting the word out. -fink
+ He has it on the site now.
+ I hope we contributed to that. -fink
+ its right by a story about voter fraud in Colorado. Sounds like the same M.O. -- signing up people at grocery stores.
+ multiple registration voter fraud? I know it's a GOP pet peeve... they think the Democrats only have such high numbers because we vote over and over.
+ Did anybody catch this little sentence? Another source said the company has now moved on to Oregon where it is once again registering voters
+ I'm composing an email right this second to the state Elections Division here. I'll copy Hardy Myers, our Attorney General, who's a good Dem and an acquaintance. I play roto football with one of his staff.
+ this in every state that this group touched. And you might also ask your AG to file for an injunction to prevent any victims from being denied a ballot.
+ Dear Elections: It has come to my attention (unfortunately the last day of voter registration in Oregon) that an outfit called Voters Outreach of America has moved from Nevada to Oregon to register voters. If this information is correct: http://www.klas-tv.com/Global/story.asp?S=2421595&nav=168XRvNe then the individuals in charge of or acting on behalf of the operation in question should be immediately arrested if they can be found, pending extradition to Nevada, where Voter's Outreach of America is allegedly responsible for multiple and egregious violations of Clark County and Nevada State Statute regarding election law. Among them, voter fraud, destruction of Democratic new registrations, and coercion of workers to commit same are alleged. Evidence has already hit the media as former employees have stepped forward that this group, funded by the Republican National Committee, shredded and otherwise destroyed voter registration forms that were marked to indicate Democratic Party registration in Clark County, Nevada's most populated. I believe every word of it, and when this group turns in new registrations to your office that are predominantly Republican, you should, too. I have no doubt that Voter's Outreach of America will work to ensure that the same thing happens in Oregon, denying thousands of new Democratic registrants the right to vote. It may be too late to capture the criminals responsible for this act against democracy, as they may have moved on to the next state to prey upon by now. However, it is not too late to do something to offset it: It is only fair that Oregonians who can support the claim that they were defrauded be given an emergency extension to register. OSP should be directed to investigate the building where these registrations are collected, especially to cull through waste material for evidence of destruction of voter registration forms. If any of the supervisors/managers from this group can be found, they should be held pending arrest/extradition at the very least. If they can't be found, it should be communicated to the Attorney's General of every state whose registration deadline has not yet passed that these criminals are at large. I look forward to the results of your necessary actions to protect ALL Oregon voters.
+ I got this email back today: Dear {Peace JD}, Thank you for your email. The Secretary of State and the Director of Elections will be meeting today regarding this issue. Thank you. Sincerely, Brenda Bayes/Elections Division
+ To be sent to every citizen on their 17th birthday. Run it through the DMV and/or Post Office.
+ Selective Service already has the boys. They just need to add their sisters to the database. Lordy, lordy, how badly does our system suck?
+ They'd definitely cry fowl. I disagree with their opposition to national identification systems, both the existing (SSN, draft numbers, etc.) and proposed new ones.
+ but ACLU hasn't managed to eliminate Selective Service yet, right? Would we have a battle between the national folks and the Women's Rights Project?
+ Why do you have to register AT ALL? Why not just automatically register you when you get your driver's license? I thought that's what the motor voter bill was all about. We've been having a GOTV drive on campus, registering people. It's handled by student gov't. Had a mock election too -- Kerry won. And this is Eastern Shore MD, about as conservative as it gets. Of course, this IS a college, and it's a pretty progressive place in some ways. But still...
+ In Canada, you have an option to register as a voter on our income tax. You can also register at any time, but with the income tax comes a yearly request if you would like to register.
+ I have been screaming about this since I was 10. I think that our VR should be tied to our SSN. Then, when we are legal voting age, it "switches on". Don't want to vote? Then don't, but no one can tamper with your choice and you're free to change party affiliations whenever you want, via DMV, SSN or IRS. Some people will scream about privacy, but it's not like the gov't doesn't already have the info.
+ not everyone drives - so using a drivers' license for voting proof is kind of weak. that's why i don't think there's a problem with getting a national ID card. it should be given to folks upon birth or upon acquiring citizenship, and should have a longer ID than the SS#. The SS# should likely go the way of the dodo, which would of course mean TONS more programming jobs for Americans (or Indians). upon passing your drivers' tests, you update your ID card (smartcard?) that shows that your are approved for manning a vehicle. but you don't have to do anything special for voting -- having the card is proof that you're an american, and obviously would have your DOB so we can make certain that you're old enough to vote. it should also be updated to hold emergency medical info so first responders with card readers will know your name and if you're diabetic or had a bypass or whatever. it could also hold information about whether you're licensed to shoot firearms - which should be a requirement before anyone can buy a gun [if we can't just outlaw the damned things already]
+ I posted a diary on this subject two days ago, suggesting that as a long-range goal, we should push for a grassroots reform where getting a driver's license automatically registers you to vote (or, if you're under 18, adds you to a database that will register you automatically on your 18th birthday.) The notion of having to go through the separate step of registering before you vote is, frankly, bullshit Americans shouldn't have to put up with. If you don't have a DL or a state photo ID, then you can register, but if you have a driver's license, the only other information anyone needs to register you is the swearing you are a citizen.
+ Thought this should be posted here. Courtesy of Turtle Bay, from the diaries: Title 24, Nevada Revised Statutes Sec. 293.505 8. A field registrar, employee of a voter registration agency or person assisting a voter pursuant to subsection 12 of NRS 293.5235 shall not:  (a) Delegate any of his duties to another person; or  (b) Refuse to register a person on account of that person's political party affiliation. ... 12. A county clerk, field registrar, employee of a voter registration agency or person assisting a voter pursuant to subsection 12 of NRS 293.5235 shall not: ...  (b) Alter or deface an application to register to vote that has been signed by an elector except to correct information contained in the application after receiving notice from the elector that a change in or addition to the information is required; or ... 14. A person who violates any of the provisions of subsection 8, 9, 10 or 12 is guilty of a category E felony and shall be punished as provided in NRS 193.130.
+ I've long believed that voting rights should be restored to felons who have completed their sentences. With one exception. This one. You fuck around with the voting process, you're in The Book, pal.
+ And these assholes want to wrap themselves in the flag? Karl Rove should be strung up by his little, tiny testicles. I am furious.
+ that they're little and green
+ it's time to mobilize for this. I'm more of the write letters and give money type, but I'm ready for some rabble rousing now. Is anyone planning anything -- like a massive fucking protest -- in Nevada yet? please let me know jonerik-at-myway-dot-com. Right now, I seriously want to -- and I'm mellow, for a lawyer -- want to fucking round these people up and send their asses to abu ghraib if you get my drift .... but I would settle for a not so peaceful protest. If this makes the difference on Nov. 2, we have to do something. I can't believe this. October surprises indeed. I'm getting on the phone, and writing letters. I wonder if there's any chance that Kerry mentions this tomorrow. Forget the Sinclair thing. Something tells me this extends nationwide... and this is more important. </ rant>
+ Fuck these guys. I am of a mind to start cracking some heads. (Years of hockey coming back...)
+ We need to get more of corn-fed farmboys and otherside-of-the-tracks union guys in the decision-making room. These pencil-neck overeducated socialites ain't got a clue what real politics is!
+ See this diary on a strikingly similar situation in Colorado.
+ to Lou Dobbs. Let's see if he has the guts to report it. In the meantime, who owns this company? How many states have they been operating in? Any connection to Rove, the White House, etc.? They just declared war.
+ This is a group fully owned and operated by the GOP. That advertisement in Career Builder and confirmed by telephone tells it all. The group was trained by the REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE to not collect dem votes and only republican ones. THEY WERE ALSO TRAINED TO TRASH DEM VOTES. <This is the proof we have been waiting for!</b>
+ ... these investigative issues that you've uncovered? You can continually update it and it will be recommended so it stays high on the list. We need to keep track of the incoming data...
+ makes it appear like the group was just a private contractor hired by the RNC. But this thread has a post showing that the group hired a labor contractor to hire the people on the ground, and that the people on the ground turned over the registration forms to (yikes!) GOP operatives. And certainly the want-ad makes it look like the group is an arm of the GOP (RNC?). We need to ferret out the facts here folks. And Quickly. It smells to high heaven.
+ Among those whose reg's have been shredded? I also think demanding the legislature needs to allow voting-day registration to rectify this. I'm one of the weirdos who actually thinks that W believes he's doing the right thing (and that he's incredibly wrong). Even the repubs should be out in front against this.  ...oh I forgot, they paid for this to be done.
+ Stuff like this always happens...is happening, will happen...and shouldn't happen....that being said... the story has to prove itself fully as it proves itself, our job is less to be outraged and seek justice than... our job is USE this moment to our political advantage... we want to gain a political advantage in Nevada from this we want to gain a political advantage nation wide from this we want to put political pressure on Bush and the GOP with this if this can be proven to be connected to the RNC, we need to put the pressure on the RNC and Bushco at the very highest level. our legal and media tactics should all be oriented around gaining political advantage from this our tactics a a whole should be rooted in the principle that "every vote counts, and count every vote"....#1: because that's the right position and #2: because that is also the right political position.... In the end, our solutions should fit with our principles and work to our political advantage at the same time. We can be "right" and still come off "wrong." As Florida taught us we can seek remedies that eventually hurt us....so we need to make sure that we keep our eyes on the prize. Desired Outcomes: voters are made aware of GOP malfeasance as it is proven in Nevada voters in Nevada energized around the idea of "every vote counts" and "count every vote" voters are made aware, nationwide that the Democratic Party in interested in voter suppression issues and on the side of fairness and equity voters nationwide are made aware of GOP / RNC voter suppression efforts as they are proven...we need a hotlist of this that is media ready we pursue an immediate remedy in Nevada, if it is to our political advantage, and fits with our principles the RNC is made aware that a heightened level of scrutiny is being applied nationwide, and proactively, we intimidate their voter suppression efforts ie. our response to this and to the Ohio SOS serve as preemptive vigilance and keep election day as free as possible of this bullshit. Reality: we may lose those voters in Nevada if an acceptable remedy is not found in time. Reality: we cannot afford to lose the broader political war over voter rights and access to the polls this election.  Florida: never again. How: by being smarter, more vigilant and sticking to out fundamental principles. Every vote is important. Every legal voter should have the right to vote. Count every vote.
+ Sir: The candidate that your paper has myopically endorsed is at the head of a party that has just disenfranchised thousands of Nevadans. The only face-saving, responsible move for your paper is to withdraw your endoresement and call for an immediate extension of the voter registration deadline and a massive investigation into this fraud, perpetrated by an arm of the Republican party, that strikes at the very heart of democracy.
+ Can't the deadline be extended with proof of such voter supression?
+ Time's up already.
+ Nevada Revised Statutes Title 24, Sec 293.533, Action to compel registration, specifically says any elector can bring a suit to compel registration, and the case law says Nevada's registration laws are "to be construed liberally."
+ to do this?
+ Location: US-MO-Springfield Base Pay: N/A Employee Type: Full-Time Employee Industry: Government - Civil Service Not for Profit - Charitable Other Great Industries Manages Others: No Job Type: Customer Service Other Req'd Education: Not Specified Req'd Experience: Not Specified Req'd Travel: Contact Company Relocation Covered: No http://nonprofit.careerbuilder.com/JobSeeker/Jobs/JobDetails.aspx?Job_DID=JQ5WL605V900TFY6WG  Contact: Not Available Phone: 702-307-1320 Email: Not Available Fax: Not Available   Ref ID: 506710 DESCRIPTION $8.50/hr part-time, $10.00/hr full-time Canvassing Neighborhoods in Support of the GOP! Voter's Outreach of America is hiring door-to-door canvassers asking people to register to vote. Must be at least 18 yrs of age, no felonies, registered to vote and have own transportation. Need good communication skills and professional appearance. Hours are 4pm to 8pm Monday-Friday and 8am to noon Saturday. Call toll free 702-307-1320 for more information. Paid for by the Republican National Committee. www.gop.com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee. Source - Reno Gazette Journal - Reno, NV REQUIREMENTS Please refer to the Job Description to view the requirements for this job
+ ... investigative material ASAP. chciagoprogressive has also dug up some good information. If one of you starts that diary, we can recommned it up and keep it on top and update it as needed.
+ Hey, is Sterling Newberry on this? I'd sure like to know if these characters have been trying to screw over potential Dem voters in SW Missouri.  I think I've just been inspired to send a few more bucks to Jim Newberry's congressional campaign to defeat Tom Delay's right hand scumbucket, Roy Blunt. All of us DKos dozen supporters should take this one personally, regardless of where we live. Grrr. . . .
+ the Dean way -- with $$$. They hit us, we hit back with $$outrage$$. Morrison? Newberry? Ginny? Barend?
+ "Your contribution to Kerry-Edwards 2004 GELAC (General Election Legal and Accounting Compliance fund) will provide the resources to make sure we are prepared to win any post Election Day battles." Remember, every dollar given to the GELAC is a dollar KE04 doesn't have to take out of their campaign funds to fight this crap! And bleeding off KE04 campaign funds may well be one of the honeypot effects Susan1138 was concerned about.
+ how widespread is this? do many people think they are registered are really not? thank god i registered on my 18th birthday 16 years ago myself.
+ I sent an email to Bob Herbert of the NYT, who is very strong on this issue as it pertains to intimidation of elderly black voters in Florida. Can we set up a clearinghouse for people who signed up with these folks? They could log in, and then someone else can go check if they are filed with the county registrar? Maybe ACT can send in a SWAT team. I agree with a previous entry that this is an opportunity to make hay politically. Edwards should have a rally in the heart of Vegas, and wave a shredded application. That'll get on the news, and piss off about a zillion people. I cannot understand how some people can be so unamerican. Maybe they're just not humans. Send all these people to Iraq as punishment.
+ we've screwed Iraq enough. Send them to North Korea, where there's not enough food.
+ That is COLD. Really seriously cold. I like the way you think. ;-) I think they all should be made to scrub the entire Jefferson Memorial with a toothbrush. Then they can do the Lincoln Memorial. Then every tombstone in Arlington. Then they can start all over again. And keep doing it until they DIE.
+ He had a great song called One More Minute, which I'd dedicate to the Prez if I could: "I'd rather clean all the bathrooms in Grand Central Station, with my tongue, than spend one more minute with you."
+ I'm kind of old-fashioned: Send the lot of them to St. Helena.
+ would you settle for Mount St. Helens?
+ TPM has a link to a news story with a number Clark County citizens could call to see if they were registered. The number is 455-VOTE. Here's a link to the site where you can check if you're registered, and the article TPM linked to.
+ your last Presidential election. They have no intention of playing fair. They are crooks who will prop up the addled and demented Bush so that they can have more money. They are worse than Judas - at least his decision appeared to cause him some pain. These pricks are howling at you.
+ We. Will. Win.
+ Ceaseless chicanery. 
+ I will be amazed by anyone who's surprised at this. American liberals will continue to lose elections they have won until they learn to be a little mean and nasty. Sorry guys, but you should know the evil you are fighting. If you continue to insist on playing it right, I admire you but be sure you will keep on LOSING. I thought Clinton already showed us how to deal with the bastards - be on the offensive...on the good and on the bad.
+ American liberals will continue to lose elections they have won until they learn to be a little mean and nasty. Sorry guys, but you should know the evil you are fighting. I though the evil we were fighting was mean and nasty.
+ Clinton did not lose twice in a row. He won. My point is that if we do not shed our sweety goody mindset, we will be in for more rude awakenings. Clintonistas were, when necessary, mean and nasty.
+ "sweety goody mindset" is considered by others to be acting morally and ethically in keeping with the progressive Enlightenment values that make us different than the Radical Right. Basically, you don't believe in your own cause--or at least don't believe that it can prevail in a democratic contest. You thus advocate breaking the rules in order to win, so that you can impose what you obviously believe is a minority viewpoint on all citizens. I happen to believe that progressive values are winning values in a democracy, and that at the core of those values is a commitment to pursue just means as an end unto themselves, rather than use righteous ends to justify unjust means. Our focus should be on combatting unethical behavior wherever we find it, ensure that the laws are equally applied to all, and educate the electorate as to the true choices before them. If you break the rules to get elected, you will break the rules when you are in power. The whole point of a progressive worldview is to elevate human rules above dogma, to hold equal justice and equal rights as inalienable rights. As soon as you advocate "mean and nasty", you are, in my opinion, just like those we are fighting against.
+ I do completely agree with the underlying thesis of your post. If not, I wouldn't be on Kos advocating democratic principles. What I am not happy with is our side's inflated estimation of human propensity to goodness. "Mean and nasty" may not be the best way to phrase what I think we should do. On the other hand, it is disgusting having to be on the defensive all the time against the assault from the right. "If you break the rules to get elected, you will break the rules when you are in power." Not neccessarily...however, no one is advocating breaking the rules to get elected.
+ This thing smells like one of Rove's patented dirty tricks. I'd bet money this leads directly to Rove through Gillespie at the RNC.
+ The advertisements on Career Builder clearly mention the Republican National Comittee. Can you say VOTERGATE
+ How much did Karl Rove know, and when did he know it?
+ we've now officially become one of those "third world countries" which really needs outside election monitors. Totally pathetic, and the worst situation I've been aware of my whole 30+ years of political participation!
+ we're not getting "third world" drugs from Canada. I am beginning to think I won't sleep for the next three weeks, or the three months after that.
+ Didn't a group of representatives appeal to the U.N. about helping us hold fair elections? I could be wrong, but it seems to me that they were basically laughed at and called the typical "unpatriotic". Oh, how the tables have turned. Typical.
+ Go to Fair Elections for more info.
+ ...anyone know how to contact Jimmy Carter? Get him involved. He may be older and slower but he carries a ton of credibility. 
+ Party before country
+ Look at this diary.
+ After 2000, we now have provisional ballots. Here's a good article about it: http://rockymountainnews.com/drmn/election/article/0,1299,DRMN_36_3247409,00.html.
+ see my posting above for links -- but it's not entirely clear from the Nevada SOS site what the deal with provisional ballots is, but another report says they're implemented.
+ http://2.004k.com/state/?s=Ohio Chicago Tribune poll has Kerry up in MN and WI as well. Bush still ahead 2 in IA but trend in Kerry's favor. Biggest though are the top issues: health care and jobs. Is anybody going to vote for Bush on jobs or health care in Ohio?
+ The decision annoyed investors. Sinclair's shares, which have lost about half their value in 2004, closed Monday at $7.38, down 12 cents. That's about as low as they've been since 1995. "I don't want my media companies that cover the news to be making news," says Barry Lucas of Gabelli & Co., which owns about 4% of Sinclair. http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/nation/president/2004-10-11-sinclair_x.htm
+ This is a perfect opportunity for him to expose this. FWIW, Bush will be in town this week too. If you feel like writing a fucking essay.
+ I'm e-mailing the link for the story to every news organization (national and local) I can think of in hopes they'll give it the serious coverage it warrants.
+ Just a little confused about the process, anyone willing to clarify? Does a person in the US have to be registered in order to vote? can they not vote with appropriate photo ID on election day, registered or not? does destroying these forms prevent them from actually voting? In my part of the world, i can waltz into the polling booth on election day, registered or not, and I get to vote as long as I can effectively demonstrate that my primary address is located in that riding (riding = district) and that I'm over 18. I guess now that I think about the Florida mess, you probably do have to be registered. You can't purge voters if they can then just walk in with photo id and get a ballot. Can anyone clarify this for me?
+ ...a few now allow at-polling-place registration, and Oregon is all vote-by-mail, but in most states, you have to register. However, as long as you don't move, you don't have to re-register every election.
+ it sounds like a flaw in the system to me, but there must be a good reason for it. Why do you have to specify party affiliation? You'd think that would enrage more people than gun registration. but what do I know, I live in a country where a statistically significant number of people claim to be Jedis on national censi to protest the religion question. A person's party affiliation, just like their faith, should be between the individual, the booth and the individual's preferred anthropomorphic energy-force. (I think I read that in Matthew 6:5-6)
+ Democrats don't want Republicans voting in Democratic parimaries and Democrats don't want Republicans voting in Republican primaries-and the primaries are run by the state (nice freebie to the parties, BTW). Of course, like I said, state laws on voting are all over the place. A couple states don't even have registration-just show a driver's license or the equalivent, and you are good to go.
+ Just make the parties run their own primaries. Save on taxes, and it'd be up to the parties to maintain lists of members entitled to vote in the primaries. In Canada, different parties have different rules about how their candidates, and their party leader, are selected, and who is entitled to a voice in that decision. I'm ashamed to admit that I was never involved at that level in Canada. (I for damnsure will be when I go back, though... dKos has fired me up!) Here's a writeup that should be fun for political rules junkies... Wanna be PM? Five Easy Steps to 24 Sussex Drive.
+ Party affiliation stuff depends on the state. There's always an option for "decline to state" or "independant". Here in Michigan, I don't think affiliation is even asked when registering.
+ As long as the state laws do not violate the US constitution or federal statute, they can do whatever they want, which is why you wind up with places like Louisiana, where the Nov2 election is just a runoff election for Senator. This is why the Voting Rights Act of 1965 was so important - it made most of the Jim Crow laws prevalent in the South at that time illegal. They had things like poll taxes, literacy tests, residency tests, etc. that were designed to disenfranchise black voters. This new kind of fraud we are seeing is just as crude - it's the well used Stalin tactic of controlling the machinery of voting.
+ We all pushed our legislators to enact that EVERY state allows voters to register at the polling place. I just don't understand how different states can do things for a Federal election differently. If they want to impose their own law for state elections, fine, but shouldn't Federal Elections have federal statutes only, and not state statutes?
+ It's not all that strange a system really. It works just fine All I need to vote is photo ID, proof of citizenship, and the energy to drag my sorry ass to the polling station, where I'm handed a paper ballot with names and circles on it, which I fill in with a 28 pencil. Not all of them, just one circle. Unless I want to protest something in a childlike and useless way by spoiling my ballot. This registration stuff just seems like another barrier to voting. it's no wonder you historically have low voter turnout, although I'm betting you have a record high turnout this year.
+ Democrats should push to eliminate it, IMHO. For the good of the country and the party-Democrats do much better in elections with high turnout out, usually. Also, I think Election Day should be a Federal, state, local, school, and banking holiday.
+ Here. Including a Career Builder listing for Voter Outreach - paid for by the RNC!
+ Can these people be prosecuted under the Rico statutes, same as mobsters?
+ My cynical nature makes me believe that whatever laws there may be against this kind of thing result in laughable penalties. I doubt many legislators would approve severe penalties for activities in which they regularly engage. Someone once said, 'The law, in it's infinite wisdom, makes it illegal for pauper and King alike to steal a loaf of bread.' I hope I got the quote close, but I think the point is obvious.
+ The issue here is that the Republican National Committee owns this outfit and pays the canvassers. This is clear from the Career Builder advertisement. It is also clear that they intentionally sent people out to either not collect or destroy democrat registrations. This is political dynamite.
+ ...doing what the person on the ground did, that is, trash the forms, is a Class E felony in Nevada, punishable by at least one year - for each instance. An outraged judge could make at least some "to be served consecutively".  If we could actually prove a conspiracy to trash the forms that involved using telephones (and we likely can't), we could make out a RICO case (we can't, really - they're notoriously hard to prove). But if we did, punishments would range into double digits.
+ Check out this story from 10/7. "Nevada's voter registration total now stands at nearly 1.1 million, with Republicans overtaking Democrats who briefly had an edge in voter numbers, reports from state and local election officials showed Thursday." Gee, I wonder why?
+ Who would have imagined. Hmmm, the polls show we are neck in neck but dem voter registrations trashed.
+ What would happen if an interested party requested the ability to do provisional ballots or same-day registration from the coutrs?
+ ....specific Nevada election law I cited above seems made for this purpose - to allow an elector to say they've been kept off the rolls by illegal means and should be added. I'm not admitted to the Nevada bar though - how about it Kossacks? We have any NV attorneys?
+ are required by federal law at least for federal elections.
+ Under what circumstances are provisional ballots required?
+ I think the most important results from this are lots of negative publicity for the RNC and getting those votes counted. It looks as though even if Nevada does not extend its registration time, these folks should be able to cast provisional ballots. I have checked the Nevada statutes on provisional ballots, if you are interested the relevant ones are NRS 293.3081 and -82, they can be found at http://www.leg.state.nv.us/NRS/NRS-293.html#NRS293Sec3081 The voter should complete an affirmation with their name, reason for casting provisional ballot, a sworn statement that the voter is registered and eligible to vote, date and type of election, voter signature, election board officer signature, an assigned "unique affirmation identification number", and for this type of ballot: an indication as to whether the voter provided the required ID at registration; his address; information about the place, manner, and approximate date of his attempted registration; any other useful information for verifying the person registered to vote; and notification that the person must provide identification upon voting or no later than 5 pm.the following Friday. Believe me, I made that statute a lot shorter. Anyway, around here we will have election monitors from Voters Initiative, I have heard of international election monitors too. They should certainly be made aware of what has happened in Nevada and make sure they can help any folks who need to cast these provisional ballots.
+ If this election does not happen soon , I am going to go grey and die from a heart attack , What is happening in this country under the delays, roves , and other dispicable neo cons is starting to get my mind sick ... I have emailed the reno gazette and the neveda appeal , has someone sent this to John Kerry's email ? its tellus@johnkery.com
+ Does anybody have a link to the Bush/Richards debate clip that was going around about a week ago? It only showed a clip of Bush from the 94 debate, and then compared it to his recent performance.  I've been googling for ten minutes, and haven't found it yet.  Thanks.
+ I just saw it today. I can't remember exactly where, but it would probably be on either atrios, skippy, here, or josh marshall. but I KNOW I saw it in a post this evening. I'll peek around
+ http://www.adbuzz.com/bushbuzz/BrainTenYrs*.mov
+ From today's Las Vegas Sun. Clark County has rebuffed efforts of a local Republican activist to revoke the voter registrations of about 17,100 inactive Democratic voters. County Counsel Mary-Anne Miller wrote a letter Monday directing Clark County Registrar Larry Lomax not to accept the challenges from Dan Burdish. ... Burdish, a former executive director of the state Republican Party, said he's appealing to conservative legal foundations to help him challenge the voters because it's unfair for people to vote in local elections where they no longer live. ... Burdish says he targeted Democrats because he is "a partisan guy." Watch out for this in your county.
+ Las Vegas Sun Burdish can only challenge the 119 registered in his precinct, he can't challenge the whole batch.
+ Does anyone else wonder why the RNC was so easily tied to this group, and why that VO employee tore up the forms in front of others? Maybe I'm just being twitchy about this, but does anyone gain from having all of us pick up on the story and react to it? I hope this is all just paranoia on my part.
+ I'm confused. I tried to grasp where the paranoia was coming from, and for the life of me, can't. How would the RNC benefit in any earthly way by doing this?? And how would they benefit by us reacting and this making the news. Even if they didn't do this <insert major coughing attack>...how does it benefit them? What would the news/backlash be? Voters get upset about story that says Republicans ripped up votes but they didn't? And that works to their advantage how? The Killian job this ain't. Christine
+ This seems like a great story to try to get on NPR, as well as on the other news networks (CNN, NBC, etc. etc.) Their story/tip page is at: http://www.npr.org/about/pitch/story.html My letter to NPR: Yesterday, the Republican Party and its surrogates were accused of separate incidents of voter fraud in two separate states. In Nevada, a Republican-owned company that set out voter registration tables DESTROYED VOTER REGISTRATIONS OF DEMOCRATS in order to prevent them from voting. (http://www.klas-tv.com/Global/story.asp?S=2421595&nav=168XRvNe). This same company is now moving on to Oregon. At the same time, Republican activists in South Dakota falsified hundreds of voter registration cards, apparently in an effort to obtain more Republican absentee ballots. (http://keloland.com/NewsDetail2817.cfm?Id=22,35221)). This seems like the sort of story that NPR should be covering. As a matter of fact, if NPR does not cover this story, I would like an explanation as to why -- why it does not think voter fraud in swing states is "newsworthy" on the national stage.
+ Enough comments, and maybe, just maybe, NPR will actually act like National "Public" Radio.
+ who asked me to give a message to Gert Clark?
+ And the half-brother to Hastaur, and, in fact, multi-dimensional in my existence, I'm not the Cthulhu who asked you to get a message to anyone. Sorry. Different Cthulhu.
+ glad to be on the same side as you nonetheless.
+ n/t
+ C'mon guys, this is what you're here for. There has to be some Calif federal lawyers licensed for the Nevada district. How about some Voting Rights Act complaints? How about a federal injunction against these people? How about an emergency hearing seeking remedy in the Nevada District Court? Where the hell are the lawyers when they're needed? There are things that can be done if someone would GET OFF THEIR ASSES and warm up the Lexis-Nexis database. Come on, guys. Here's your chance to be the cavalry and come to the rescue. Show America that not all lawyers are ambulance chasers and they actually serve a purpose in society. As a personal sacrifice, I'll give up all my lawyer jokes. Except the one about why lawyers are taking the place of lab rats.
+ ...but I'm only licensed in NY state. I've been looking up Nevada law on lexis and have come to a fairly quick conclusion. There is a specific Nevada election law that allows an elector to ask a judge to force the county to put the elector on the voting roll. It seems tailor-made for this and other like circumstances. I think some good lawyers could walk into a NV courtroom, cite this statute, get a emergency hearing, force the company/RNC to pay for advertising in NV media for potentially defrauded electors to call/write/appear to register by order of the court.
+ I told the people the same thing when they invited me to other states -- what the hell am I supposed to do in New Mexico? I have no license there. Call me when you need help in California or Minnesota.
+ they don't need help in Minnesota? Last I checked, out of state lawyers were going there with Lawyers for K-E - if you're actually admitted there, you should look into it.
+ or affidavits from the ex-employees? Any court is going to want to see those along with any petitions or motions, right? Someone should be doing this right now, if not sooner.
+ ...this is exactly what we need - affidavits from the employees, and it would be ideal to have an elector or two, to be in compliance with the letter of the election law (an elector is supposed to file the suit) - tho Nevada voter registration law "is to be construed liberally"
+ I just sent an email to the Nevada ACLU aclunv@anv.net with links to the Kos site for background plus a copy of the ads. I am now going to forward the information to a big civil rights lawyer here in San Diego who's a big Dem --and undoubtely knows people in Nevada to contact. I suggest you also contact ACLU and any local like-minded Dem lawyers you know.
+ But I like the idea of forcing the RNC to pay for apologetic advertising. I like the idea of an injunction to the board of elections giving defrauded voters an extension of time to register. As a catchall, the provisional ballots. I wouldn't worry, I am sure there is a NV lawyer quite happy to get into the national news with this suit... Oh, and you didn't tell us the one about the lab rats...?
+ lab rats? Brcause they're smarter, easier to train, and there's some things you just can't get a lab rat to do!
+ Q. What's the difference between a lawyer and a single sperm cell? A. The sperm has at least a one in a billion chance of becoming a human.
+ I promise never to repeat it (fingers crossed).
+ Kerry will probably win the electoral vote, but not by significant margins in some states. This will unleash a number of contested results. If anyone is inaugurated POTUS on January 20, 2005, I will be very surprised. The big question is, of course, then what?  
+ If its an Electoral tie or neither candidate gets the required amount of votes its going to the GOP controlled house......god help us if thats the case. I dont think its gonna be that close though.....Bush is gonna lose
+ It's the new House that votes Each state gets one vote for all members If the state is tied, that state gets no vote The VP is nominated by the Senate seperately
+ does it have to be based on how the state voted? I mean, if there are a majority of Republicans in the House but Kerry wins the popular vote, do the House members have to vote for Kerry because a majority of the country wants that or do they say screw and vote based solely on party lines?
+ They can vote against their states election results. On a side note, it is quite possible for a hung decision in the House but most probably will be a definate decision in the Senate. Therefore Edwards might be president. (Edwards is VP, but no president so he becomes acting president until the gridlock ends in the house (i.e. 2006)). On the other hand Chenney might become President after he breaks a tie in the senate with his own vote. noooooooooooooooooooo! Regards, Jamie
+ Of course, I don't think this is likely. I actually think that Kerry will: Win. Win big. And at least take the Senate with him. Go Edwards/Obama 2012!!!
+ Schieffer should ask Bush straight out: if he will launch a civil rights investigation to denounce these RNC tactics
+ I hope a few jails end up full of republicans
+ That is all I have to say.
+ Read this story from TV4 in Carson City from October 8: Republicans overtake Democrats in Nevada voter registration Nevada's voter registration total now stands at nearly 1.1 million, with Republicans overtaking Democrats who briefly had an edge in voter numbers. Reports from state and local election officials, updated to show latest totals in seven Nevada counties where most of the state's voters live, show the voters include 428,063 Republicans and 425,796 Democrats. That's a registration edge of 2,267 for the Republicans... Republicans held a slight registration edge through July, but then trailed Democrats for the rest of the summer. Chris Carr is the state GOP's executive director. He says, "It's been a seesaw. Obviously we increased our efforts since midsummer and we closed very strong."
+ i have posted email to carter center for democracy with details as set out above for nevada southdakota and my fl county. Maybe he can get national media to cover will also post to Pax Christi..international election monitoring organization
+ make sure you send e-mails out to all potential media outlets who may cover-- with Kerry surging, and Bush seeming desperate, this story of dirty tricks will likely be irresistable to some. someone with some tech savyness PLEASE SAVE THE CAREERBUILDER SCREENSHOT SOMEHOW. not just a print-out, a URL others can link to. you can bet the GOP will be taking this shit down ASAP, and playing denial. for the lazy reporter, they need to see it with their own eyes that this group is paid for by the RNC before they lift a finger!
+ counted?: How ballot glitches, legal fights & terror scares could tarnish election day." I kindly sent them an e-mail noting the Nevada and Thune situations and reminded them of FLORIDA! Tarnish, indeed. Also e-mailed Olberman.  Those rat-bastards!
+ I copied it to my web site. http://www.kiruvforkerry.com/voter_fraud_job.html
+ thanks. this may prove critical especially if the RNC does political scandal mistake #1-- denial and cover-up.
+ I have saved the pages for miami pensacola FL and springfield michigan
+ The Repugs will call all these efforts to prevent Dem votes coincidental "mistakes". I negotiate contracts for a living and I always tell the employer when they plead that "it was just a mistake": If all these things were truly accidental, truly mistakes, then about half of them should help me. When they always hurt me then they are not mistakes.
+ The Bad News: 17,000 potential Dems are not registered. Will Clark County/Nevada provide a remedy and let any voter in the county who is unregistered to register to vote? How will anyone be able to prove that he/she submitted a form through this corrupt company?  Republicans have a slight lead in voter reg, which they wouldn't if these registration forms were counted. Bush won Nevada by about 20,000 votes last time. These votes could be the margin of victory/defeat in a tight race. The Good news: We found out about it beforehand. There is still time to get a remedy but we have to turn the wheels of justice, which work better for Republicans than Democrats. This doesn't change the fact that we have a larger advantage in Clark County than 4 years ago. Gore won the County by +6 last time. If Kerry does as well or better, he'll win the state. No matter how many voters the Bushies throw off the rolls, it can't change the fact that he still sucks and he has been polling under his 2000 finish all year. We'll win the state.
+ I have a receipt to prove it. I would think that this would be required by any party registering voters. My high school age niece called from Sparks. Michael Moore's slacker tour is in Reno tomorrow. Brown shirts are supposed to arrive 5 pm. She wants me to go along for protection. Go figure.
+ If the allegations be true -- and I have little faith they are not -- the persons who have committed these acts; have consented to them; have facilitated such; or otherwise developed strategy to do so, have committed TREASON AGAINST THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. From Webster's Online: Main Entry: treason Etymology: Middle English tresoun, from Old French traison, from Latin tradition-, traditio act of handing over, from tradere to hand over, betray -- more at TRAITOR 1 : the betrayal of a trust : TREACHERY 2 : the offense of attempting by overt acts to overthrow the government of the state to which the offender owes allegiance or to kill or personally injure the sovereign or the sovereign's family These people have plotted treachery and betrayed the Public Trust. They have committed treason against the U.S. Government by undermining the foundation of democracy upon it stands. Furthermore, Main Entry: traitor Pronunciation: 'trA-t&r Function: noun Etymology: Middle English traitre, from Old French, from Latin traditor, from tradere to hand over, deliver, betray, from trans-, tra- trans- + dare to give -- more at DATE 1 : one who betrays another's trust or is false to an obligation or duty 2 : one who commits treason these people are TRAITORS.
+ ...while I agree that Bush and the GOP have betrayed all public trust ever given to them, the Constitution says: "Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort." (Art. III. Sec. 3) oh well <pssst - I think they're traitors too>
+ Grover Norquist: "I want to shrink government to a size where I can drown it in a bathtub." That sounds like war to me.
+ ...to our enemies. They love our enemies so much, they're creating even more of them!
+ So this mentality is what we are up against--Democracy-hating, vote-destroying, cheating, lying, PIGS who belong in Saudi Arabia, not the USA. I'm also wondering if some of those same vote registration destroyers call themselves "Christians". Man oh man, this country is in some real big trouble right now. I'm in this for the long haul. I will oppose, and resist and fight these pigs until my last breath, I swear to God. For me, 2004 will be the year when I just STARTED to fight.
+ kerry is speaking to 25000 at the aarp convention in las vegas on thursday. George refused to show up, so laurabot is showing up for him...this would be a perfect op to bring the nevada thing up, so i am sending info to the campaign with suggestion
+ for door-to-door canvassers from Springfield, Mo Career Builder
+ A little Google goes a long way. Found this American Prospect story referenced by Arizona Indymedia (and also linked to right here on Kos): Nader's Dubious Raiders, which was about the Republican operatives gathering signatures for Nader in AZ. Voters' Outreach was one of those firms. The man who hired them for this job was Nathan Sproul, former Executive Director of the AZ GOP and previous Field Director for the Christian Coalition. Sproul has been a very busy boy. He apparently has been pulling similar stunts in PA and WV, as well as the OR stunt which has already been commented on here. The PA stunt was even set up the same: using libraries to selectively register Republicans. In PA and WV, apparently Sproul used Kelly Services temps.
+ of the Baghdad Blog (http://www.thebaghdadblog.com/home/) will be covering the US election for The Guardian. He spoke about it on CBC Radio "Sounds Like Canada" this morning. He wryly noted that since the US wants to bring democracy to Iraq, he can go to the US and see what it's supposed to be like. Ya gotta laugh, or else you'd cry.
+ heading to career builder website to gather which states they are operating in. will post later
+ a major Press Conference here in Nevada (none / 0) a major Press Conference here in Nevada by Norwegian Chef Wed Oct 13th, 2004 at 02:58:38 GMT We are just about to hold a press conference here at Dem HQ in Las Vegas. We are going all out on to alert the state of Nevada and the nation about this reprehensible act of voter registration fraud and seek justice for the people who have registered but been disenfranchised by this Repug treachery. I will post an update after the Press Conference to let you all know how its going. Keep watching all the Nevada tv, radio and press locations for more updates as well. WE WILL PAINT NEVADA DEEP BLUE OR DIE TRYING!!!!! UPDATE: Speaker of the Nevada State Assembly (House) Richard Perkins and State Committee Chair Adrianna Martinez held a press conference at 8:00 PST outlining the case much as it was earlier stated in the earlier KLAS Report which I posted. Tomorrow the Democrats will be launching a new NEVADA VOTER PROTECTION PROJECT, the specifics of which will be outlined tomorrow. Speaker Perkins noted that every effort will be undertaken to assure that all Nevadan who have registered have the right to vote on Election Day. So the gauntlet has been laid down. WISH US LUCK AND OREGON AS WELL!!!! by sixmoreweeks on Wed Oct 13th, 2004 at 08:42:54 GMT [ Reply to This ]  Kosopedia | 48 comments (48 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden) | Post A Comment  Menu  Home  About  Diaries  Advertising  Daily Kos Store  FAQ  New Diary Entry  Logout sixmoreweeks  dKosopedia  OurCongress.org  Senate Outlook  House Outlook  Governor Outlook  Electoral Calculator Select section...Bush AdminCultureDemocratsDem PrimaryEconomyGeneral 2004Governor RacesHouse 2004LaborMediaMiscOpen ThreadsRepublicansSenate 2004War dKos Sponsors Communications Workers of America Read More... Reserve your spot! dKos Patron Melt the Rubber Stamp! Ready for change in Washington? Tony Miller will be an independent congressman who put people first. His opponent, ANNE NORTHUP, votes with the BUSH Agenda and GOP leadership 98% of the time. Kentucky needs stronger representation. They Need Tony Miller. Read More... Reserve your spot! dKos Sponsors Swift Boat Vets for Nader? Five donors who have given $13,500 to the right-wing, discredited group, Swift Boat Veterans for Truth have also given Ralph Nader's campaign $8,000. Enough is enough. Tell Mr. Nader to end the hypocrisy. Sign our petition and demand that he return the $8,000 in donations he's received from them. Read More... $10 LIAR shirt. Profits Beat W High quality screen printed Anti-Bush Liar shirt for $10. 100% of the profits go to beat Bush and take back Congress. Guaranteed delivery before election day. Read More... Sweatshop-free Tees for Peace Wear your dissent EVERYWHERE. ALTERNATEES political T-shirts veer hard left at Dick & Bush puns, corporate abusers and cultural blindspots. Sizes and styles for men and women. If enough of you order our stuff, you will be funding future peace initiatives. www.AlternaTees.com Read More... FOOD FOR WONKS With 3 million more Americans living in poverty since 2000, the economic gains of the 1990s are being reversed. Yet instead of addressing the problem, the government has curtailed programs for the poor. A new report from The Century Foundation. www.tcf.org Read More... A Brief History of the Mind The mind's big bang was only 50,000 years ago, the last 1% of ape-to-human evolution. It sparked a worldwide distribution of untested "wetware." With our unreliable memory and one-track reasoning, we are easily captured by a "good story." But it may lead us into a bog. --William H. Calvin Read More... TEAM AMERICA: WORLD POLICE Team America, an international police force dedicated to maintaining global stability, learns that a power hungry dictator is brokering weapons of mass destruction to terrorists. The heroes embark upon a harrowing mission to save the world. ONLY IN THEATRES OCTOBER 15. Read More... Read More... The Road from 9/11 to Abu Ghraib Seymour Hersh has outraged the Bush Administration with his breakthrough reporting on Abu Ghraib in The New Yorker. Now, in CHAIN OF COMMAND, he takes an unflinching look behind the public story of President Bush's War on Terror and into the lies that led America into Iraq. Learn more.  Read More... Help Restore the Promise  Read More... Vote Carrie Are you tired of the same old choices? Do you want a candidate that represents the issues that are important to you? Ladies and gentlemen, there's a new party in town...and it's hot! Vote Carrie Bradshaw for a more stylish America! Read More... Fight for 51! The DSCC is 2 seats away from taking back the majority from the Republicans in the US Senate. Current polling says that we can win . Every contribution goes to the closest races with the greatest need. Help fight for 51! Visit us today at DSCC.org Read More... Reserve your spot! 
+ if you watch the video, it shows the employees (ex) going into the offices of the FBI so i think there will be affidavits
+ Btw, this firm, Voters Outreach of America, is one of the firms hired to collect petition signatures for Ralph Nader in Arizona. It is a small world after all!
+ Senator Reid will be at the Charleston campus of the Community College of Southern Nevada this Wednesday. While this press conference is focused on a grant to equip the colleges new Health Science Center, I'm sure there will be plenty of press present and a second ad-hoc session after the festivities could allow the question to be asked and an answer recorded by Nevada's most powerful Democrat. Press conference commences at 11:15 AM Wednesday at 6375 West Charleston Boulevard, Las Vegas, NV.
+ And forgive me if someone's already posted this. Long thread. But... I googled "Voters Outreach of America" and came up empty. I googled "America Votes" and came up with a 527 that looks pretty liberal: http://americavotes.org/what_we_do.cfm Anybody know what the deal is?
+ the more prominent group with a Republican organization. I do not believe the confusion was coincidental. Better to smoke out those likely Dem voters and have more cards to shred. I hate thinking this way, but we have to be strategically and relentlessly cynical about this.
+ The repub asshole who is trading on the similarities in the name is Nathan Sproul. Google his name and see what comes up.
+ I recently moved from Seattle to Las Vegas and registered to vote down here. There are thousands upon thousands of new voter in Vegas, but the deadline to register for this election has already passed. If you did register to vote in NV, you should have received an application number that detaches when you register. KEEP IT! If you want to see if you have been registered and find your precinct, go to this address: http://www.co.clark.nv.us/election/home.asp GO KERRY!!!
+ I live in San Francisco, and I've spent three weekends in Reno working with ACT. Each time, there's been at least 150 people from California there, sowing the seeds for ACT's GOTV effort. They have it dialed in. On 10/2, the last day to register, we registered over 650 voters in Reno. All you Californians out there, get off your ass and get up to Nevada to GOTFV! drivingvotes.org can help you find a ride, and/or a place to stay. ACT can do the same. ACT's GOTV plan can win this election for us, but only if we all roll up our sleeves and make it happen.
+ I too live in SF - but I'm 80 years old - I just now went to your ACT link and contributed again to ACT - (I had already contributed heavily to ACT - and had volunteered and written letters to NM voters - I also gave $100 for gas money to a friend who is also going to NV for GOTV.) - Good luck to you and ACT - they are doing great work! (Wow! - this Nevada fraud thing really pumped up comments on this post - 400+)
+ If you've been reading/listening to the GOP talking points on pieces having to do with GOTV, whenever the GOPer has been asked "does the upsurge in democratic registrations woory you?" the answer is a variation of these newly registered dems won't show up at the polls. The Goper claims that only loyal republican volunteers have been signing up people, thus, the people they sign up will truly get to the polls. Whereas, the democrats have been relying upon a paid army of homeless, stoned slackers* to register people and therefore, few, if any, of these registerees will show. I was a pissed that the GOPers were claiming there were no democratic volunteer registrars, but now it makes perfect sense. The dirty tricksters were setting the stage in case enough of the unregistered voters made a stink on election day. They are going to claim that these people were registered by paid/stoned/slackers recruited by the democrats/ACT/MoveOn & the slackers dropped the ball. Bad on the democrats. Whereas, the professional/organized/disciplined republicans got the job done. As soon as Rove, Hughes, Gillespie, et al, starts whispering that explanation for the unregistered voters to Matthews, Wilgoren, Pickler, Woodruff, Hume, Russert, et al, you know you will see that explanation, uncritically accepted as gospel, spiral through the media. The story will be democrats screwed up. End of story. Voter fraud will not even be mentioned except dismissively and labeled sour grapes. The SCLM & theTVRWC will sniff at the desperate attempt by democrats to absolve themselves of blame for dropping the ball. The fact that the GOP paid the volunteers not the democrats will never see the light of day because it does not fit in the pundits' paradigm. Republicans don't screw up. They have real people with real values who don't need to be paid & are competent & disciplined enough to follow through. The cover story about the democratic activist organizations hiring slackers who screwed up without anyone noticing feels plausible to them. No reason to look further. Its too bad this story will get little traction pre-election. As obsessed as the media is about the horserace, they hate this kind of story. They would rather focus upon how CinCish Bush will appear tonight if he manages to stand on the stage for a full 90 minutes & claim that his masterful performance resulted in his gaining votes instead of acknowledging that disenfranchisement of the disenchanted. (Sigh) People should be going to jail & people hire up the food chain than a few minimum wage document shredders, but they won't. They hate us because we are free. (* I think they were referring to ACT/MoveOn volunteers.Most of whom are not paid)
+ It really isn't smart for Repugs to do dumb stuff like this - if the electorate finds that the election is stolen again, there will be hell to pay. What a wonderful example US fraudulent elections are to the rest of the world!
+ I know I've been naive on these types of tactics. I shouldn't be considering all the efforts to keep my people from voting in the past. 2000 opened my eyes and this just floors me. The problem is that the majority of these people didn't know about this until only a few hours before the deadline and there is no recourse for them. It isn't likely they'll get something through the court system by Nov 2. Are there any lawyers out there who know if these folks have recourse?
+ One of these slimebuckets was caught on tape "registering voters" in downtown Portland and shown on the local news last night (conveniently too late to do anything about it). He was an African American, he admitted throwing out Democrat registrations because he "only got paid for Republican" registrations, that he himself was a registered Democrat and that he was only doing it for the money. The Republicans trotted out an African American spokeswoman who rebutted by saying the "Republican Party" does not do such things. And of course, every low-level flack is totally in the know about party activities, right?
+ as well as a violation of Civil Rights. Those people ought to be thrown in jail and sued. 
+ I know, I know... dumb question. But someone, please, do a broad-scale piece on this. In how many states now do we have allegations against the RNC and/or their supporters practicing illegal or unfair practices?
+ One word: fear. No, not fear of retribution from the Republicans. Fear of the U.S. turning into Argentina under the generals. (100 years ago, Argentina was not considered a "developing" country -- it was a first-world economy.) Like any short-sighted corporate management, they want to sweep the Bush problem under the rug until the next quarter (they know damn well what the right wingers are about and so does a lot of corporate America.) The Republithugs exploit this as a weakness -- they just keep on breaking promises and keep on breaking the rules. Corporate America (that's who the mainstream media basically represents) aren't right wing conservatives; they are, however, very risk averse and short-sighted. Our strategy? To make them (the media, and corporate America) be scared, very scared, of what's happening to the country. The good news is that some of that is happening already. If the shit in Nevada and Oregon does hit the fan in the national media, the Republican base in big business may bolt the Republicans at the presidental level.
+ http://www.9news.com/acm_news.aspx?OSGNAME=KUSA&IKOBJECTID=8ac173fd-0abe-421a-011e-5ce7dfcf561e& amp;TEMPLATEID=0c76dce6-ac1f-02d8-0047-c589c01ca7bf Story says same sort of pattern as Sproul & Associates, but doesn't use their name. 
+ Drudge now links to the KLAS-TV report: http://www.klas-tv.com/Global/story.asp?S=2421595&nav=168XRvNe Please, you savvy folks! For cryin' out loud, don't say that the national media won't pick this up! Get it out to them! Get it to some appropriate people at the Kerry campaign! I'm too hysterical to do anything myself. : (
+ Copped from Buzzflash: http://www.oregonlive.com/newsflash/regional/index.ssf?/base/news-8/1097647496301300.xml&storyli st=orlocal >More Allegations that a Republican Contracted Firm Threw >Away Hundreds, Perhaps Thousands of Voter Registrations. >This Time in Oregon. GOP Theft of the Election 2004 Update. posted by Morgan, wife of:
+ So is John Kerry's AG gonna prosecute these people? What about Jeb Bush and Katherine Harris?
+ Good question for Elliot Spitzer.
+ Democrats needs to raise a BIG STINK in the media. Every DNC surrogate on TV needs to bring this up. Send out lawyers to find evidence and turn this into the biggest election-year scandal of all time. I think even John Kerry should raise hell if he has proof that the RNC really is funding this outfit. Then frame it this way: "How can Republicans claim to be for free elections in Iraq when they are trying to suppress votes here in America?"
+ This is yet another reason why we MUST push for Election Day Registration in every state. Maine, New Hampshire, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Idaho and Wyoming have it, and they have 12% higher turnout than the national average. Plus, if for any reason your voter registration info doesn't make it onto the rolls in time, or is lost -- or thrown away, like in this hideous story -- you can re-register right on Election Day. It is a no-brainer, and long overdue. Progressives have got to grab the ball on common sense democracy reforms to prevent scandals like this from furthur undermining our hard work. More here (I just wrote a piece about it today): http://tinyurl.com/43wo3 
+ in the "Very Long Media Email List...for Voter Fraud Story" diary. I got up to the end of the CBS email addresses. I am going to try to work my way through 50 more after I take a break. I have been sending them individually but send the same message to each. This is what I am sending in my email to all these individuals and organizations: "There is a HUGE story breaking on the internet and political blogs, especially detailed on the major political blog Daily Kos, about the Republican National Committee's funding of a national effort to both suppress Democratic voting on November 2nd, and to destroy voter registration cards filled out by Democrats. This is a multi-state effort evidence for which is surfacing in news stories quickly. This is a story about CRIMINAL ACTIVITY FUNDED BY THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IN MULTIPLE STATES. On Daily Kos, there are several diary entries connecting the dots on this Republican-funded voter suppression effort, please click on: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/10/13/15534/960 to read this story and find links to newspaper and blog research and reporting on it. I urge you to do a story on this criminal scandal funded by the Republican Party. This is of the utmost importance to our upcoming election. This is a story about corruption and deceit, that goes to the very bedrock of our country's democracy and our health and capacity to survive as the America that we fight to protect. Please investigate and do a story on this outrageous and well-funded attempt to steal the upcoming election. Sincerely,"
+ This story, taken in a larger context, has the potential to cause a huge swing in actual voting beyond the usual persuasions plied on the general populace. The key is to appeal to the anger and disgust most Americans will feel at this clear "smoking gun" case of systemic disenfranchisement. Add to this case, which provides a pretty clear indictment on its own, reminders of all the other frauds being perpetrated. (Did you check the citizen box as well as sign the affidavit? Are you sure you used 80 pound paper? Was the Notary really a Notary? Etc.) Briefly reminding the people how "partisan hair splitting" in Florida last time around made all the difference in the final result brings home the relevance of a small number of votes. The clear bottom line, which I hope someone can put succinctly and eloquently, is that there is an undeniable and persistent pattern of Republican supporters systematically obstructing the voting rights of Democrats - directly by tearing up their registrations, and indirectly by using "clerical errors" and tenuous reasoning to suppress groups of registrations likely to be mostly Democrats - not to mention the various purges of groups of (mostly) Democrats from voter roles which have been reported. I believe anger about these widespread tactics used by Republican supporters can provide a highly effective motivation to get people to the polls. People who don't always vote will have empathy for those who have been denied the right through these dirty tricks. That emotion for many will turn into motivation. I don't believe this story will change the minds of many voters as to which candidate they support, but I do believe it has great potential to motivate more people to vote, and that can only be bad news for the current administration. Changing voters' minds at this point is difficult, but motivating non-voters who already have an opinion to vote can have a huge payback.
+ on "All Things Considered" they ran a short bulletin on the Sproul/voter reg. scandal. They asked Sproul about it and Sproul denied that it happened. That was that.  KEEP EMAILING AND CALLING NEWS OUTLETS with this story! It needs to move beyond the "well, Sproul says it didn't happen" phase!
+ Around 6pm NPR broadcast an expanded "Voter Registration Fraud" story several minutes long focussing on the AZ story and connecting it to Republicans. I couldn't tell if it was local (Seattle) or National.  Needless to say, I called in immediamente with a pledge. I started in on how many other states were involved, and who Nathan Sproul is, & she seemed well familiar with the whole breaking story, said "Yeah, it's a mess", and made a note that my pledge was prompted by the Voter Registration Fraud story. I think this story may have extended wings.
+ Yahoo story carries the Sproul AZ story a few paragraphs down: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=ap/nevada_voter_challenge "Eric Russell, a former employee of Voters Outreach of America, said he witnessed a supervisor shred eight to 10 Democratic registration forms from prospective voters." Drop in and rate it a 5!
+ Encouraging to see it getting some coverage. I'll keep sending emails in the hope-- the hope-- that the media will forget about the fake Mary Cheney flap and get some sense about what's important.
+ He's going to quietly take a big munch out of Tom DeLay's ass. I'd pay good money to watch.
+ is sooo going to beat Pataki in 2006.
+ beat Guiliani? Ah, there's the rub!
+ "presidential pardon?" Bush won't let his buddies see the inside of the slammer. Don't kid yourself.
diff --git a/mrs_test/id-parks.txt b/mrs_test/id-parks.txt
new file mode 100644
index 0000000..02f8caa
--- /dev/null
+++ b/mrs_test/id-parks.txt
@@ -0,0 +1,654 @@
+npspark	d1	"http://www.nps.gov/abli"	Abraham Lincoln Birthplace NHS
+npspark	d2	"http://www.nps.gov/acad"	Acadia NP
+npspark	d3	"http://www.nps.gov/adam"	Adams NHS
+npspark	d4	"http://www.nps.gov/agfo"	Agate Fossil Beds NM
+npspark	d5	"http://www.nps.gov/alag"	Alagnak Wild River  
+npspark	d6	"http://www.nps.gov/fair"	Alaska Public Lands Inf. Center
+npspark	d7	"http://www.nps.gov/alfl"	Alibates Flint Quarries NM
+npspark	d8	"http://www.nps.gov/alpo"	Allegheny Portage Railroad NHS
+npspark	d9	"http://www.nps.gov/amer"	American Memorial Park
+npspark	d10	"http://www.nps.gov/amis"	Amistad NRA
+npspark	d11	"http://www.nps.gov/ande"	Andersonville NHS
+npspark	d12	"http://www.nps.gov/anjo"	Andrew Johnson NHS
+npspark	d13	"http://www.nps.gov/ania"	Aniakchak NM & NPRES  
+npspark	d14	"http://www.nps.gov/anti"	Antietam NB
+npspark	d15	"http://www.nps.gov/apis"	Apostle Islands NL
+npspark	d16	"http://www.nps.gov/aptr"	Appalachian National Scenic Trail
+npspark	d17	"http://www.nps.gov/apco"	Appomattox Courthouse NHP
+npspark	d18	"http://www.nps.gov/arch"	Arches NP
+npspark	d19	"http://www.nps.gov/arpo"	Arkansas Post NM
+npspark	d20	"http://www.nps.gov/arho"	Arlington House, The Robert E. Lee Memorial
+npspark	d21	"http://www.nps.gov/asis"	Assateague Island NS
+npspark	d22	"http://www.nps.gov/azru"	Aztec Ruins NM
+npspark	d23	"http://www.nps.gov/badl"	Badlands NP
+npspark	d24	"http://www.nps.gov/band"	Bandelier NM
+npspark	d25	"http://www.nps.gov/beol"	Bent's Old Fort NHS
+npspark	d26	"http://www.nps.gov/bela"	Bering Land Bridge NPRES  
+npspark	d27	"http://www.nps.gov/bibe"	Big Bend NP
+npspark	d28	"http://www.nps.gov/bicy"	Big Cypress NPRES
+npspark	d29	"http://www.nps.gov/biho"	Big Hole NB
+npspark	d30	"http://www.nps.gov/biso"	Big South Fork NRA
+npspark	d31	"http://www.nps.gov/bith"	Big Thicket NPRES
+npspark	d32	"http://www.nps.gov/bica"	Bighorn Canyon NRA
+npspark	d33	"http://www.nps.gov/bisc"	Biscayne NP
+npspark	d34	"http://www.nps.gov/blca"	Black Canyon of the Gunnison NM
+npspark	d35	"http://www.nps.gov/blac"	Blackstone River
+npspark	d36	"http://www.nps.gov/blri"	Blue Ridge Parkway
+npspark	d37	"http://www.nps.gov/blue"	Bluestone NSR
+npspark	d38	"http://www.nps.gov/bowa"	Booker T. Washington NM
+npspark	d39	"http://www.nps.gov/boaf"	Boston African American NHS
+npspark	d40	"http://www.nps.gov/bost"	Boston NHP
+npspark	d41	"http://www.nps.gov/boha"	Boston Harbor Islands NRA
+npspark	d42	"http://www.nps.gov/brcr"	Brices Cross Roads NBS
+npspark	d43	"http://www.nps.gov/brvb"	Brown vs. Board of Education NHS
+npspark	d44	"http://www.nps.gov/brca"	Bryce Canyon NP
+npspark	d45	"http://www.nps.gov/buis"	Buck Island Reef NM
+npspark	d46	"http://www.nps.gov/buff"	Buffalo NSR
+npspark	d47	"http://www.nps.gov/cabr"	Cabrillo NM
+npspark	d48	"http://www.nps.gov/cali"	California National Historic Trail
+npspark	d49	"http://www.nps.gov/cana"	Canaveral NS
+npspark	d50	"http://www.nps.gov/cari"	Cane River Creole NHP and Heritage Area
+npspark	d51	"http://www.nps.gov/cach"	Canyon De Chelly NM
+npspark	d52	"http://www.nps.gov/cany"	Canyonlands NP
+npspark	d53	"http://www.nps.gov/caco"	Cape Cod NS
+npspark	d54	"http://www.nps.gov/caha"	Cape Hatteras NS
+npspark	d55	"http://www.nps.gov/noaa"	Cape Krusenstern NM  
+npspark	d56	"http://www.nps.gov/calo"	Cape Lookout NS
+npspark	d57	"http://www.nps.gov/care"	Capitol Reef NP
+npspark	d58	"http://www.nps.gov/cavo"	Capulin Volcano NM
+npspark	d59	"http://www.nps.gov/carl"	Carl Sandburg Home NHS
+npspark	d60	"http://www.nps.gov/cave"	Carlsbad Caverns NP
+npspark	d61	"http://www.nps.gov/cagr"	Casa Grande NM
+npspark	d62	"http://www.nps.gov/casa"	Castillo de San Marcos NM
+npspark	d63	"http://www.nps.gov/cacl"	Castle Clinton NM
+npspark	d64	"http://www.nps.gov/cato"	Catocin Mtn. Park
+npspark	d65	"http://www.nps.gov/cebr"	Cedar Breaks NM
+npspark	d66	"http://www.nps.gov/chcu"	Chaco Culture NHP
+npspark	d67	"http://www.nps.gov/cham"	Chamizal NM
+npspark	d68	"http://www.nps.gov/chis"	Channel Islands NP
+npspark	d69	"http://www.nps.gov/chpi"	Charles Pinckney NHS
+npspark	d70	"http://www.nps.gov/chat"	Chattahoochee NSR
+npspark	d71	"http://www.nps.gov/choh"	Chesapeake & Ohio Canal NHP
+npspark	d72	"http://www.nps.gov/chch"	Chickamauga & Chattanooga NMP
+npspark	d73	"http://www.nps.gov/chic"	Chickasaw NRA
+npspark	d74	"http://www.nps.gov/chro"	Chimney Rock NHS
+npspark	d75	"http://www.nps.gov/chir"	Chiricahua NM
+npspark	d76	"http://www.nps.gov/chri"	Christiansted NHS
+npspark	d77	"http://www.nps.gov/ciro"	City of Rocks NR
+npspark	d78	"http://www.nps.gov/clba"	Clara Barton NHS
+npspark	d79	"http://www.nps.gov/colo"	Colonial NHP
+npspark	d80	"http://www.nps.gov/colm"	Colorado NM
+npspark	d81	"http://www.nps.gov/cosw"	Congaree Swamp NM
+npspark	d82	"http://www.nps.gov/coga"	Constitution Gardens  
+npspark	d83	"http://www.nps.gov/coro"	Coronado NM
+npspark	d84	"http://www.nps.gov/laro"	Coulee Dam NRA
+npspark	d85	"http://www.nps.gov/cowp"	Cowpens NB
+npspark	d86	"http://www.nps.gov/crla"	Crater Lake NP
+npspark	d87	"http://www.nps.gov/crmo"	Craters of the Moon NM
+npspark	d88	"http://www.nps.gov/cuga"	Cumberland Gap NHP
+npspark	d89	"http://www.nps.gov/cuis"	Cumberland Island NS
+npspark	d90	"http://www.nps.gov/cure"	Curecanti NRA
+npspark	d91	"http://www.nps.gov/cuva"	Cuyahoga Valley NRA
+npspark	d92	"http://www.nps.gov/daav"	Dayton Aviation Heritage NHP
+npspark	d93	"http://www.nps.gov/deso"	DeSoto NM
+npspark	d94	"http://www.nps.gov/deva"	Death Valley NP
+npspark	d95	"http://www.nps.gov/dela"	Delaware National Scenic River
+npspark	d96	"http://www.nps.gov/dele"	Delaware and Lehigh National Heritage Corridor
+npspark	d97	"http://www.nps.gov/dewa"	Delaware Water Gap NRA
+npspark	d98	"http://www.nps.gov/dena"	Denali NP & NPRES  
+npspark	d99	"http://www.nps.gov/depo"	Devils Postpile NM
+npspark	d100	"http://www.nps.gov/deto"	Devils Tower NM
+npspark	d101	"http://www.nps.gov/dino"	Dinosaur NM
+npspark	d102	"http://www.nps.gov/drto"	Dry Tortugas NP
+npspark	d103	"http://www.nps.gov/ebla"	Ebey's Landing NH Reserve
+npspark	d104	"http://www.nps.gov/edal"	Edgar Allan Poe NHS
+npspark	d105	"http://www.nps.gov/edis"	Edison NHS
+npspark	d106	"http://www.nps.gov/efmo"	Effigy Mounds NM
+npspark	d107	"http://www.nps.gov/eise"	Eisenhower NHS
+npspark	d108	"http://www.nps.gov/stli"	Ellis Island
+npspark	d109	"http://www.nps.gov/elma"	El Malpais NM
+npspark	d110	"http://www.nps.gov/elmo"	El Morro NM
+npspark	d111	"http://www.nps.gov/elro"	Eleanor Roosevelt NHS
+npspark	d112	"http://www.nps.gov/euon"	Eugene O'Neill NHS
+npspark	d113	"http://www.nps.gov/ever"	Everglades NP
+npspark	d114	"http://www.nps.gov/feha"	Federal Hall NM
+npspark	d115	"http://www.nps.gov/fiis"	Fire Island NS
+npspark	d116	"http://www.nps.gov/flfo"	Florissant Fossil Beds NM
+npspark	d117	"http://www.nps.gov/foth"	Ford's Theatre
+npspark	d118	"http://www.nps.gov/fobo"	Fort Bowie NHS
+npspark	d119	"http://www.nps.gov/foca"	Fort Caroline NM
+npspark	d120	"http://www.nps.gov/focl"	Fort Clatsop NM
+npspark	d121	"http://www.nps.gov/foda"	Fort Davis NHS
+npspark	d122	"http://www.nps.gov/fodo"	Fort Donelson NB
+npspark	d123	"http://www.nps.gov/fofr"	Fort Frederica NM
+npspark	d124	"http://www.nps.gov/fola"	Fort Laramie NHS
+npspark	d125	"http://www.nps.gov/fols"	Fort Larned NHS
+npspark	d126	"http://www.nps.gov/foma"	Fort Matanzas NM
+npspark	d127	"http://www.nps.gov/fomc"	Fort McHenry NM
+npspark	d128	"http://www.nps.gov/fomo"	Fort Moultrie NM
+npspark	d129	"http://www.nps.gov/fone"	Fort Necessity NB
+npspark	d130	"http://www.nps.gov/fopo"	Fort Point NHS
+npspark	d131	"http://www.nps.gov/fopu"	Fort Pulaski NM
+npspark	d132	"http://www.nps.gov/fora"	Fort Raleigh NHS
+npspark	d133	"http://www.nps.gov/fosc"	Fort Scott NHS
+npspark	d134	"http://www.nps.gov/fosm"	Fort Smith NHS
+npspark	d135	"http://www.nps.gov/fost"	Fort Stanwix NM
+npspark	d136	"http://www.nps.gov/fosu"	Fort Sumter NM
+npspark	d137	"http://www.nps.gov/foun"	Fort Union NM
+npspark	d138	"http://www.nps.gov/fous"	Fort Union Trading Post NHS
+npspark	d139	"http://www.nps.gov/fova"	Fort Vancouver NHS
+npspark	d140	"http://www.nps.gov/fowa"	Fort Washington Park
+npspark	d141	"http://www.nps.gov/fobu"	Fossil Butte NM
+npspark	d142	"http://www.nps.gov/fdrm"	Franklin Delano Roosevelt Memorial  
+npspark	d143	"http://www.nps.gov/frdo"	Frederick Douglass NHS  
+npspark	d144	"http://www.nps.gov/frla"	Frederick Law Olmsted NHS
+npspark	d145	"http://www.nps.gov/frsp"	Fredericksburg and Spotsylvania County Battlefields Memorial NMP
+npspark	d146	"http://www.nps.gov/frhi"	Friendship Hill National Historic Site
+npspark	d147	"http://www.nps.gov/gaar"	Gates of the Arctic NP & NPRES  
+npspark	d148	"http://www.nps.gov/gate"	Gateway NRA
+npspark	d149	"http://www.nps.gov/gari"	Gauley River NRA
+npspark	d150	"http://www.nps.gov/gegr"	General Grant NM
+npspark	d151	"http://www.nps.gov/gero"	George Rogers Clark NHP
+npspark	d152	"http://www.nps.gov/gewa"	George Washington Birthplace NM
+npspark	d153	"http://www.nps.gov/gwca"	George Washington Carver NM
+npspark	d154	"http://www.nps.gov/gwmp"	George Washington Memorial Parkway
+npspark	d155	"http://www.nps.gov/gett"	Gettysburg NMP
+npspark	d156	"http://www.nps.gov/gicl"	Gila Cliff Dwellings NM
+npspark	d157	"http://www.nps.gov/glba"	Glacier Bay NP & NPRES  
+npspark	d158	"http://www.nps.gov/glac"	Glacier NP
+npspark	d159	"http://www.nps.gov/glca"	Glen Canyon NRA
+npspark	d160	"http://www.nps.gov/glec"	Glen Echo Park
+npspark	d161	"http://www.nps.gov/goga"	Golden Gate NRA
+npspark	d162	"http://www.nps.gov/gosp"	Golden Spike NHS
+npspark	d163	"http://www.nps.gov/glde"	Gloria Dei Church NHS
+npspark	d164	"http://www.nps.gov/grca"	Grand Canyon NP
+npspark	d165	"http://www.nps.gov/grpo"	Grand Portage NM
+npspark	d166	"http://www.nps.gov/grte"	Grand Teton NP
+npspark	d167	"http://www.nps.gov/grko"	Grant-Kohrs Ranch NHS
+npspark	d168	"http://www.nps.gov/grba"	Great Basin NP
+npspark	d169	"http://www.nps.gov/greg"	Great Egg Harbor NSR
+npspark	d170	"http://www.nps.gov/grsa"	Great Sand Dunes NM
+npspark	d171	"http://www.nps.gov/grsm"	Great Smoky Mtn. NP
+npspark	d172	"http://www.nps.gov/gree"	Greenbelt Park
+npspark	d173	"http://www.nps.gov/grsp"	Green Springs NHL District
+npspark	d174	"http://www.nps.gov/gumo"	Guadalupe Mountains NP
+npspark	d175	"http://www.nps.gov/guco"	Guilford Courthouse NMP
+npspark	d176	"http://www.nps.gov/guis"	Gulf Islands NS
+npspark	d177	"http://www.nps.gov/hafo"	Hagerman Fossil Beds NM
+npspark	d178	"http://www.nps.gov/hale"	Haleakala NP
+npspark	d179	"http://www.nps.gov/hagr"	Hamilton Grange NM
+npspark	d180	"http://www.nps.gov/hamp"	Hampton NHS
+npspark	d181	"http://www.nps.gov/hafe"	Harpers Ferry NHP
+npspark	d182	"http://www.nps.gov/hstr"	Harry S. Truman NHS
+npspark	d183	"http://www.nps.gov/havo"	Hawaii Volcanoes NP
+npspark	d184	"http://www.nps.gov/heho"	Herbert Hoover NHS
+npspark	d185	"http://www.nps.gov/pima"	Hohokam Pima NM
+npspark	d186	"http://www.nps.gov/hofr"	Home of Franklin D. Roosevelt NM
+npspark	d187	"http://www.nps.gov/home"	Homestead National Monument of America
+npspark	d188	"http://www.nps.gov/hocu"	Hopewell Culture NHS
+npspark	d189	"http://www.nps.gov/hofu"	Hopewell Furnace NHS
+npspark	d190	"http://www.nps.gov/hobe"	Horseshoe Bend NMP
+npspark	d191	"http://www.nps.gov/hosp"	Hot Springs NP
+npspark	d192	"http://www.nps.gov/hove"	Hovenweep NM
+npspark	d193	"http://www.nps.gov/hutr"	Hubbell Trading Post NHS
+npspark	d194	"http://www.nps.gov/iatr"	Ice Age National Trail
+npspark	d195	"http://www.nps.gov/ilmi"	Illinois & Michigan Canal National Heritage Corridor
+npspark	d196	"http://www.nps.gov/inde"	Independence NHP
+npspark	d197	"http://www.nps.gov/indu"	Indiana Dunes NL
+npspark	d198	"http://www.nps.gov/isro"	Isle Royale NP
+npspark	d199	"http://www.nps.gov/jaga"	James A. Garfield NHS
+npspark	d200	"http://www.nps.gov/jela"	Jean Lafitte NHP & NPRES
+npspark	d201	"http://www.nps.gov/jeff"	Jefferson National Expansion Memorial
+npspark	d202	"http://www.nps.gov/jeca"	Jewel Cave NM
+npspark	d203	"http://www.nps.gov/jica"	Jimmy Carter NHS
+npspark	d204	"http://www.nps.gov/jodr"	John D. Rockefeller, Jr., Memorial Parkway
+npspark	d205	"http://www.nps.gov/joda"	John Day Fossil Beds NM
+npspark	d206	"http://www.nps.gov/jofi"	John Fitzgerald Kennedy NHS 
+npspark	d207	"http://www.nps.gov/jomu"	John Muir NHS
+npspark	d208	"http://www.nps.gov/jofl"	Johnstown Flood NM
+npspark	d209	"http://www.nps.gov/jotr"	Joshua Tree NP
+npspark	d210	"http://www.nps.gov/kala"	Kalaupapa NHP
+npspark	d211	"http://www.nps.gov/kaho"	Kaloko-Honokohau NHP
+npspark	d212	"http://www.nps.gov/katm"	Katmai NP & NPRES  
+npspark	d213	"http://www.nps.gov/kefj"	Kenai Fjords NP  
+npspark	d214	"http://www.nps.gov/kemo"	Kennesaw Mountain NBP
+npspark	d215	"http://www.nps.gov/kewe"	Keweenaw NHP
+npspark	d216	"http://www.nps.gov/seki"	Kings Canyon NP
+npspark	d217	"http://www.nps.gov/kimo"	Kings Mountain NMP
+npspark	d218	"http://www.nps.gov/klgo"	Klondike Gold Rush NHP  
+npspark	d219	"http://www.nps.gov/knri"	Knife River Indian Villages NHS
+npspark	d220	"http://www.nps.gov/noaa"	Kobuk Valley NP   Return to the Top
+npspark	d221	"http://www.nps.gov/lach"	Lake Chelan NRA
+npspark	d222	"http://www.nps.gov/lacl"	Lake Clark NP & NPRES  
+npspark	d223	"http://www.nps.gov/lame"	Lake Mead NRA 
+npspark	d224	"http://www.nps.gov/lame"	Lake Mead NRA (Nevada)
+npspark	d225	"http://www.nps.gov/lamr"	Lake Meredith NRA
+npspark	d226	"http://www.nps.gov/laro"	Lake Roosevelt NRA
+npspark	d227	"http://www.nps.gov/lavo"	Lassen Volcanic NP
+npspark	d228	"http://www.nps.gov/labe"	Lava Beds NM
+npspark	d229	"http://www.nps.gov/lecl"	Lewis & Clark National Trail
+npspark	d230	"http://www.nps.gov/libo"	Lincoln Boyhood NM
+npspark	d231	"http://www.nps.gov/liho"	Lincoln Home NHS
+npspark	d232	"http://www.nps.gov/linc"	Lincoln Memorial  
+npspark	d233	"http://www.nps.gov/libi"	Little Bighorn Battlefield NM
+npspark	d234	"http://www.nps.gov/liri"	Little River Canyon NPRES
+npspark	d235	"http://www.nps.gov/long"	Longfellow NHS
+npspark	d236	"http://www.nps.gov/lowe"	Lowell NHP
+npspark	d237	"http://www.nps.gov/lyjo"	Lyndon B. Johnson NHP
+npspark	d238	"http://www.nps.gov/lyba"	Lyndon Baines Johnson Memorial Grove on the Potomac   Return to the Top
+npspark	d239	"http://www.nps.gov/malw"	Maggie L. Walker NHS
+npspark	d240	"http://www.nps.gov/maac"	Maine Acadian Culture Project
+npspark	d241	"http://www.nps.gov/maca"	Mammoth Cave NP
+npspark	d242	"http://www.nps.gov/mana"	Manassas NB Park
+npspark	d243	"http://www.nps.gov/manz"	Manzanar NHS
+npspark	d244	"http://www.nps.gov/mabi"	Marsh-Billings NHP
+npspark	d245	"http://www.nps.gov/malu"	Martin Luther King Jr. NHS
+npspark	d246	"http://www.nps.gov/mava"	Martin Van Buren NHS
+npspark	d247	"http://www.nps.gov/mamc"	Mary McLeod Bethune Council House NHS  
+npspark	d248	"http://www.nps.gov/meve"	Mesa Verde NP
+npspark	d249	"http://www.nps.gov/mima"	Minute Man NHP
+npspark	d250	"http://www.nps.gov/miss"	Mississippi NR & NRA
+npspark	d251	"http://www.nps.gov/mnrr"	Missouri National Recreation River
+npspark	d252	"http://www.nps.gov/mocr"	Moores Creek NB
+npspark	d253	"http://www.nps.gov/moja"	Mojave NP
+npspark	d254	"http://www.nps.gov/mono"	Monocacy NB
+npspark	d255	"http://www.nps.gov/moca"	Montezuma Castle NM
+npspark	d256	"http://www.nps.gov/mopi"	Mormon Pioneer NHT
+npspark	d257	"http://www.nps.gov/morr"	Morristown NHP
+npspark	d258	"http://www.nps.gov/mora"	Mount Rainier NP
+npspark	d259	"http://www.nps.gov/moru"	Mount Rushmore NM
+npspark	d260	"http://www.nps.gov/muwo"	Muir Woods NM
+npspark	d261	"http://www.nps.gov/natc"	Natchez NHP
+npspark	d262	"http://www.nps.gov/natt"	Natchez Trace NST
+npspark	d263	"http://www.nps.gov/natr"	Natchez Trace Parkway
+npspark	d264	"http://www.nps.gov/nacc"	National Capital Parks  
+npspark	d265	"http://www.nps.gov/parklists/cemetary.htm"	National Cemeteries 
+npspark	d266	"http://www.nps.gov/nama"	National Mall 
+npspark	d267	"http://www.nps.gov/npsa"	National Park Of American Samoa
+npspark	d268	"http://www.nps.gov/nabr"	Natural Bridges NM
+npspark	d269	"http://www.nps.gov/nava"	Navajo NM
+npspark	d270	"http://www.nps.gov/nebe"	New Beford Whaling NHP
+npspark	d271	"http://www.nps.gov/neje"	New Jersey Coastal Heritage Trail 
+npspark	d272	"http://www.nps.gov/pine"	New Jersey Pinelands NR
+npspark	d273	"http://www.nps.gov/neor"	New Orleans Jazz NHP
+npspark	d274	"http://www.nps.gov/neri"	New River Gorge NR
+npspark	d275	"http://www.nps.gov/nepe"	Nez Perce National Historical Park 
+npspark	d276	"http://www.nps.gov/nico"	Nicodemus NHS
+npspark	d277	"http://www.nps.gov/nisi"	Ninety Six NHS
+npspark	d278	"http://www.nps.gov/nimi"	Niobrara NSR
+npspark	d279	"http://www.nps.gov/noaa"	Noatak NPRES  
+npspark	d280	"http://www.nps.gov/noca"	North Cascades NP
+npspark	d281	"http://www.nps.gov/noco"	North Country National Trail
+npspark	d282	"http://www.nps.gov/noaa"	Northwest Alaska Territories
+npspark	d283	"http://www.nps.gov/obed"	Obed Wild and Scenic River
+npspark	d284	"http://www.nps.gov/ocmu"	Ocmulgee National Monument
+npspark	d285	"http://www.nps.gov/olym"	Olympic NP
+npspark	d286	"http://www.nps.gov/orca"	Oregon Caves NM
+npspark	d287	"http://www.nps.gov/oreg"	Oregon NHT
+npspark	d288	"http://www.nps.gov/orpi"	Organ Pipe Cactus NM
+npspark	d289	"http://www.nps.gov/ozar"	Ozark NSR
+npspark	d290	"http://www.nps.gov/pais"	Padre Island NS
+npspark	d291	"http://www.nps.gov/paal"	Palo Alto Battlefield NHS
+npspark	d292	"http://www.nps.gov/peri"	Pea Ridge NHS
+npspark	d293	"http://www.nps.gov/peco"	Pecos NHP
+npspark	d294	"http://www.nps.gov/paav"	Pennsylvania Ave NHS  
+npspark	d295	"http://www.nps.gov/pevi"	Perry's Victory and International Peace Memorial
+npspark	d296	"http://www.nps.gov/pete"	Petersburg NB
+npspark	d297	"http://www.nps.gov/pefo"	Petrified Forest NP
+npspark	d298	"http://www.nps.gov/petr"	Petroglyph NM
+npspark	d299	"http://www.nps.gov/piro"	Pictured Rocks NL
+npspark	d300	"http://www.nps.gov/pinn"	Pinnacles NM
+npspark	d301	"http://www.nps.gov/pisp"	Pipe Spring NM
+npspark	d302	"http://www.nps.gov/pipe"	Pipestone NM
+npspark	d303	"http://www.nps.gov/pisc"	Piscataway Park
+npspark	d304	"http://www.nps.gov/pore"	Point Reyes NS
+npspark	d305	"http://www.nps.gov/poex"	Pony Express NHT
+npspark	d306	"http://www.nps.gov/gwmp/vapa/pht.htm"	Potomac Heritage NST  
+npspark	d307	"http://www.nps.gov/popo"	Poverty Point NM
+npspark	d308	"http://www.nps.gov/prwi"	Prince William Forest Park
+npspark	d309	"http://www.nps.gov/puho"	Pu'uhonua a Honaunau NHP
+npspark	d310	"http://www.nps.gov/puhe"	Puukohola Heiau NHS
+npspark	d311	"http://www.nps.gov/qush"	Quinebaug and Shetucket Rivers Valley NHC
+npspark	d312	"http://www.nps.gov/rabr"	Rainbow Bridge NM
+npspark	d313	"http://www.nps.gov/redw"	Redwood NP
+npspark	d314	"http://www.nps.gov/rich"	Richmond NB Park
+npspark	d315	"http://www.nps.gov/rigr"	Rio Grande Wild and Scenic River
+npspark	d316	"http://www.nps.gov/rocr"	Rock Creek Park
+npspark	d317	"http://www.nps.gov/romo"	Rocky Mountain NP
+npspark	d318	"http://www.nps.gov/rowi"	Roger Williams NM
+npspark	d319	"http://www.nps.gov/roca"	Roosevelt Campobello IP
+npspark	d320	"http://www.nps.gov/rola"	Ross Lake NRA
+npspark	d321	"http://www.nps.gov/ruca"	Russell Cave NM
+npspark	d322	"http://www.nps.gov/sahi"	Sagamore Hill NHS
+npspark	d323	"http://www.nps.gov/sagu"	Saguaro NP
+npspark	d324	"http://www.nps.gov/sacr"	Saint Croix Island International HS
+npspark	d325	"http://www.nps.gov/sacn"	Saint Croix NSR
+npspark	d326	"http://www.nps.gov/sapa"	Saint Paul's Church NHS
+npspark	d327	"http://www.nps.gov/saga"	Saint-Gaudens NHS
+npspark	d328	"http://www.nps.gov/sama"	Salem Maritime NHS
+npspark	d329	"http://www.nps.gov/sapu"	Salinas Pueblo Missions NM
+npspark	d330	"http://www.nps.gov/sari"	Salt River Bay & Ecological Preserve
+npspark	d331	"http://www.nps.gov/saan"	San Antonio Missions NHP
+npspark	d332	"http://www.nps.gov/safr"	San Francisco Maritime NHP
+npspark	d333	"http://www.nps.gov/sajh"	San Juan Island NHP
+npspark	d334	"http://www.nps.gov/saju"	San Juan National Historic Site
+npspark	d335	"http://www.nps.gov/samo"	Santa Monica Mountains NRA
+npspark	d336	"http://www.nps.gov/sara"	Saratoga NHP
+npspark	d337	"http://www.nps.gov/sair"	Saugus Iron Works NHS
+npspark	d338	"http://www.nps.gov/scbl"	Scotts Bluff NM
+npspark	d339	"http://www.nps.gov/seki"	Sequoia and Kings Canyon NP
+npspark	d340	"http://www.nps.gov/shen"	Shenandoah NP
+npspark	d341	"http://www.nps.gov/shil"	Shiloh NMP
+npspark	d342	"http://www.nps.gov/sitk"	Sitka NHS  
+npspark	d343	"http://www.nps.gov/slbe"	Sleeping Bear Dunes NL
+npspark	d344	"http://www.nps.gov/spar"	Springfield Armory NHS
+npspark	d345	"http://www.nps.gov/sacn"	St. Croix NSR
+npspark	d346	"http://www.nps.gov/stli"	Statue of Liberty NM
+npspark	d347	"http://www.nps.gov/stea"	Steamtown NHS
+npspark	d348	"http://www.nps.gov/stri"	Stones River NB
+npspark	d349	"http://www.nps.gov/sucr"	Sunset Crater NM
+npspark	d350	"http://www.nps.gov/tapr"	Tallgrass Prairie Nat'l Preserve
+npspark	d351	"http://www.nps.gov/thko"	Thaddeus Kosciuszko NM
+npspark	d352	"http://www.nps.gov/thrb"	Theodore Roosevelt Birthplace NHS
+npspark	d353	"http://www.nps.gov/this"	Theodore Roosevelt Island
+npspark	d354	"http://www.nps.gov/thro"	Theodore Roosevelt NP
+npspark	d355	"http://www.nps.gov/thri"	Theodre Roosevelt Inaugural NHS
+npspark	d356	"http://www.nps.gov/thje"	Thomas Jefferson Memorial  
+npspark	d357	"http://www.nps.gov/thst"	Thomas Stone NHS
+npspark	d358	"http://www.nps.gov/tica"	Timpanogos Cave NM
+npspark	d359	"http://www.nps.gov/timu"	Timucuan Ecological and Historic Preserve
+npspark	d360	"http://www.nps.gov/tont"	Tonto NM
+npspark	d361	"http://www.nps.gov/tosy"	Touro Synagogue NHS
+npspark	d362	"http://www.nps.gov/tuma"	Tumacacori NM
+npspark	d363	"http://www.nps.gov/tupe"	Tupelo NB
+npspark	d364	"http://www.nps.gov/tuin"	Tuskegee Institute NHS
+npspark	d365	"http://www.nps.gov/tuzi"	Tuzigoot NM
+npspark	d366	"http://www.nps.gov/usar"	USS  Arizona  Memorial
+npspark	d367	"http://www.nps.gov/ulsg"	Ulysses S. Grant NHS
+npspark	d368	"http://www.nps.gov/upde"	Upper Delaware Scenic & Recreational River
+npspark	d369	"http://www.nps.gov/vafo"	Valley Forge NHP
+npspark	d370	"http://www.nps.gov/vama"	Vanderbilt Mansion NHS
+npspark	d371	"http://www.nps.gov/vick"	Vicksburg NMP
+npspark	d372	"http://www.nps.gov/vive"	Vietnam Veterans Memorial  
+npspark	d373	"http://www.nps.gov/viis"	Virgin Islands NP
+npspark	d374	"http://www.nps.gov/voya"	Voyageurs NP
+npspark	d375	"http://www.nps.gov/waca"	Walnut Canyon NM
+npspark	d376	"http://www.nps.gov/wapa"	War in the Pacific NHP
+npspark	d377	"http://www.nps.gov/wamo"	Washington Monument  
+npspark	d378	"http://www.nps.gov/waba"	Washita Battlefield NHS
+npspark	d379	"http://www.nps.gov/wefa"	Weir Farm NHS
+npspark	d380	"http://www.nps.gov/whis"	Whiskeytown Shasta Trinity NRA
+npspark	d381	"http://www.nps.gov/whho"	White House   
+npspark	d382	"http://www.nps.gov/whsa"	White Sands NM
+npspark	d383	"http://www.nps.gov/whmi"	Whitman Mission NHS
+npspark	d384	"http://www.nps.gov/wiho"	William Howard Taft NHS
+npspark	d385	"http://www.nps.gov/wicr"	Wilson's Creek NB
+npspark	d386	"http://www.nps.gov/wica"	Wind Cave NP
+npspark	d387	"http://www.nps.gov/wotr"	Wolf Trap Farm Park for the Performing Arts
+npspark	d388	"http://www.nps.gov/wori"	Women's Rights NHP
+npspark	d389	"http://www.nps.gov/wrst"	Wrangell St.Elias NP & NPRES  
+npspark	d390	"http://www.nps.gov/wrbr"	Wright Brothers NM
+npspark	d391	"http://www.nps.gov/wupa"	Wupatki NM
+npspark	d392	"http://www.nps.gov/yell"	Yellowstone NP
+npspark	d393	"http://www.nps.gov/yose"	Yosemite NP
+npspark	d394	"http://www.nps.gov/yuho"	Yucca House NM
+npspark	d395	"http://www.nps.gov/yuch"	Yukon Charley Rivers NPRES
+npspark	d396	"http://www.nps.gov/zion"	Zion NP
+icepark	d397	"http://www.nps.gov/acad"	Acadia NP 
+icepark	d398	"http://www.nps.gov/alpo"	Allegheny Portage Railroad NHS 
+icepark	d399	"http://www.nps.gov/amer"	American Memorial Park 
+icepark	d400	"http://www.nps.gov/amis"	Amistad NRA 
+icepark	d401	"http://www.nps.gov/ande"	Andersonville NHP 
+icepark	d402	"http://www.nps.gov/ania"	Aniakchak NM 
+icepark	d403	"http://www.nps.gov/anti"	Antietam NB 
+icepark	d404	"http://www.nps.gov/apis"	Apostle Islands NL 
+icepark	d405	"http://www.nps.gov/apco"	Appomattox Court House NHP 
+icepark	d406	"http://www.nps.gov/arch"	Arches NP 
+icepark	d407	"http://www.nps.gov/arpo"	Arkansas Post N. Mem. 
+icepark	d408	"http://www.nps.gov/asis"	Assateague Island NS 
+icepark	d409	"http://www.nps.gov/azru"	Aztec Ruins NM 
+icepark	d410	"http://www.nps.gov/badl"	Badlands NP 
+icepark	d411	"http://www.nps.gov/band"	Bandelier NM 
+icepark	d412	"http://www.nps.gov/beol"	Bent's Old Fort NHS 
+icepark	d413	"http://www.nps.gov/bela"	Bering Land Bridge N. Preserve 
+icepark	d414	"http://www.nps.gov/bibe"	Big Bend NP 
+icepark	d415	"http://www.nps.gov/bicy"	Big Cypress N. Preserve 
+icepark	d416	"http://www.nps.gov/biso"	Big South Fork N. River & Rec. Area
+icepark	d417	"http://www.nps.gov/bith"	Big Thicket N. Preserve 
+icepark	d418	"http://www.nps.gov/bica"	Bighorn Canyon NRA 
+icepark	d419	"http://www.nps.gov/bisc"	Biscayne NP 
+icepark	d420	"http://www.nps.gov/blca"	Black Canyon of the Gunnison NM 
+icepark	d421	"http://www.nps.gov/blri"	Blue Ridge Parkway 
+icepark	d422	"http://www.nps.gov/blue"	Bluestone National Scenic River 
+icepark	d423	"http://www.nps.gov/bowa"	Booker T. Washington NM 
+icepark	d424	"http://www.nps.gov/brca"	Bryce Canyon NP 
+icepark	d425	"http://www.nps.gov/buff"	Buffalo N. River 
+icepark	d426	"http://www.nps.gov/cabr"	Cabrillo NM 
+icepark	d427	"http://www.nps.gov/cana"	Canaveral NS 
+icepark	d428	"http://www.nps.gov/cach"	Canyon de Chelly NM 
+icepark	d429	"http://www.nps.gov/cany"	Canyonlands NP 
+icepark	d430	"http://www.nps.gov/caco"	Cape Cod NS 
+icepark	d431	"http://www.nps.gov/caha"	Cape Hatteras NS 
+icepark	d432	"http://www.nps.gov/cakr"	Cape Krusenstern NM 
+icepark	d433	"http://www.nps.gov/calo"	Cape Lookout NS 
+icepark	d434	"http://www.nps.gov/care"	Capital Reef NP 
+icepark	d435	"http://www.nps.gov/cavo"	Capulin Volcano NM 
+icepark	d436	"http://www.nps.gov/carl"	Carl Sandburg Home NHS 
+icepark	d437	"http://www.nps.gov/caca"	Carlsbad Caverns NP 
+icepark	d438	"http://www.nps.gov/cagr"	Casa Grande NM 
+icepark	d439	"http://www.nps.gov/casa"	Castillo de San Marcos NM 
+icepark	d440	"http://www.nps.gov/cato"	Catoctin Mountain Park 
+icepark	d441	"http://www.nps.gov/chcu"	Chaco Culture NHP 
+icepark	d442	"http://www.nps.gov/cham"	Chamizal NM 
+icepark	d443	"http://www.nps.gov/chat"	Chattahoochee River NRA 
+icepark	d444	"http://www.nps.gov/choh"	Chesapeake and Ohio Canal NHP 
+icepark	d445	"http://www.nps.gov/chch"	Chickamauga & Chattanooga NMP 
+icepark	d446	"http://www.nps.gov/chic"	Chickasaw NRA 
+icepark	d447	"http://www.nps.gov/chir"	Chiricahua NM 
+icepark	d448	"http://www.nps.gov/ciro"	City of Rocks NR 
+icepark	d449	"http://www.nps.gov/colo"	Colonial NHP 
+icepark	d450	"http://www.nps.gov/colm"	Colorado NM 
+icepark	d451	"http://www.nps.gov/cosw"	Congaree Swamp NM 
+icepark	d452	"http://www.nps.gov/coro"	Coronado NM 
+icepark	d453	"http://www.nps.gov/coda"	Coulee Dam NRA 
+icepark	d454	"http://www.nps.gov/cowp"	Cowpens NB 
+icepark	d455	"http://www.nps.gov/crla"	Crater Lake NP 
+icepark	d456	"http://www.nps.gov/crmo"	Craters of the Moon NM 
+icepark	d457	"http://www.nps.gov/cuga"	Cumberland Gap NHP 
+icepark	d458	"http://www.nps.gov/cuis"	Cumberland Island NS 
+icepark	d459	"http://www.nps.gov/cure"	Curecanti NRA 
+icepark	d460	"http://www.nps.gov/cuva"	Cuyahoga Valley NRA 
+icepark	d461	"http://www.nps.gov/deso"	De Soto N. Mem. 
+icepark	d462	"http://www.nps.gov/deva"	Death Valley NP 
+icepark	d463	"http://www.nps.gov/dewa"	Delaware Water Gap NRA 
+icepark	d464	"http://www.nps.gov/dena"	Denali NP & Preserve 
+icepark	d465	"http://www.nps.gov/depo"	Devil's Postpile NM 
+icepark	d466	"http://www.nps.gov/deto"	Devils Tower NM 
+icepark	d467	"http://www.nps.gov/dino"	Dinosaur NM 
+icepark	d468	"http://www.nps.gov/ebla"	Ebey's Landing NR 
+icepark	d469	"http://www.nps.gov/efmo"	Effigy Mounds NM 
+icepark	d470	"http://www.nps.gov/elmo"	El Morro NM 
+icepark	d471	"http://www.nps.gov/ever"	Everglades NP 
+icepark	d472	"http://www.nps.gov/fiis"	Fire Island NS 
+icepark	d473	"http://www.nps.gov/flfo"	Florissant Fossil Beds NM 
+icepark	d474	"http://www.nps.gov/fobo"	Fort Bowie NHS 
+icepark	d475	"http://www.nps.gov/foca"	Fort Caroline N. Mem. 
+icepark	d476	"http://www.nps.gov/focl"	Fort Clatsop N. Mem. 
+icepark	d477	"http://www.nps.gov/foda"	Fort Davis NHS 
+icepark	d478	"http://www.nps.gov/fodo"	Fort Donelson NB 
+icepark	d479	"http://www.nps.gov/fofr"	Fort Frederica NM 
+icepark	d480	"http://www.nps.gov/fola"	Fort Laramie NHS 
+icepark	d481	"http://www.nps.gov/fols"	Fort Larned NHS 
+icepark	d482	"http://www.nps.gov/foma"	Fort Matanzas NM 
+icepark	d483	"http://www.nps.gov/fone"	Fort Necessity NB 
+icepark	d484	"http://www.nps.gov/fopo"	Fort Point NHS 
+icepark	d485	"http://www.nps.gov/fopu"	Fort Pulaski NM 
+icepark	d486	"http://www.nps.gov/fosc"	Fort Scott NHS 
+icepark	d487	"http://www.nps.gov/fosm"	Fort Smith NHS 
+icepark	d488	"http://www.nps.gov/fosu"	Fort Sumter NM 
+icepark	d489	"http://www.nps.gov/foun"	Fort Union NM 
+icepark	d490	"http://www.nps.gov/fous"	Fort Union Trading Post NHS 
+icepark	d491	"http://www.nps.gov/fobu"	Fossil Butte NM 
+icepark	d492	"http://www.nps.gov/frsp"	Fredericksburg & Spotsylvania NMP 
+icepark	d493	"http://www.nps.gov/fred"	Fredricksburg N. Cemetary 
+icepark	d494	"http://www.nps.gov/frhi"	Friendship Hill NHS 
+icepark	d495	"http://www.nps.gov/gaar"	Gates of the Artic NP & Preserve 
+icepark	d496	"http://www.nps.gov/gate"	Gateway NRA 
+icepark	d497	"http://www.nps.gov/gari"	Gauley River NRA 
+icepark	d498	"http://www.nps.gov/gewa"	George Washington Birthplace NM 
+icepark	d499	"http://www.nps.gov/gwca"	George Washington Carver NM 
+icepark	d500	"http://www.nps.gov/gwmp"	George Washington Memorial Parkway 
+icepark	d501	"http://www.nps.gov/gett"	Gettysburg NMP 
+icepark	d502	"http://www.nps.gov/gicl"	Gila Cliff Dwellings NM 
+icepark	d503	"http://www.nps.gov/glac"	Glacier NP 
+icepark	d504	"http://www.nps.gov/glca"	Glen Canyon NRA 
+icepark	d505	"http://www.nps.gov/goga"	Golden Gate NRA 
+icepark	d506	"http://www.nps.gov/grca"	Grand Canyon NP 
+icepark	d507	"http://www.nps.gov/grpo"	Grand Portage NM 
+icepark	d508	"http://www.nps.gov/grte"	Grand Teton NP 
+icepark	d509	"http://www.nps.gov/grko"	Grant-Kohrs Ranch NHS 
+icepark	d510	"http://www.nps.gov/grba"	Great Basin NP 
+icepark	d511	"http://www.nps.gov/grsa"	Great Sand Dunes NM 
+icepark	d512	"http://www.nps.gov/grsm"	Great Smoky Mountains NP 
+icepark	d513	"http://www.nps.gov/gree"	Greenbelt Park 
+icepark	d514	"http://www.nps.gov/gumo"	Guadalupe Mountains NP 
+icepark	d515	"http://www.nps.gov/guco"	Guilford Courthouse NMP 
+icepark	d516	"http://www.nps.gov/guis"	Gulf Island NS 
+icepark	d517	"http://www.nps.gov/hafo"	Hagerman Fossil Beds NM 
+icepark	d518	"http://www.nps.gov/hale"	Haleakala NP 
+icepark	d519	"http://www.nps.gov/hamp"	Hampton NHS 
+icepark	d520	"http://www.nps.gov/hafe"	Harpers Ferry NHP 
+icepark	d521	"http://www.nps.gov/havo"	Hawaii Volcanoes NP 
+icepark	d522	"http://www.nps.gov/heho"	Herbert Hoover NHS 
+icepark	d523	"http://www.nps.gov/home"	Homestead NM of America 
+icepark	d524	"http://www.nps.gov/hofu"	Hopewell Furnace NHS 
+icepark	d525	"http://www.nps.gov/hobe"	Horseshoe Bend NMP 
+icepark	d526	"http://www.nps.gov/hosp"	Hot Springs NP 
+icepark	d527	"http://www.nps.gov/hove"	Hovenweep NM 
+icepark	d528	"http://www.nps.gov/hutr"	Hubbell Trading Post NHS 
+icepark	d529	"http://www.nps.gov/inde"	Independence NHP 
+icepark	d530	"http://www.nps.gov/indu"	Indiana Dunes NL 
+icepark	d531	"http://www.nps.gov/isro"	Isle Royale NP 
+icepark	d532	"http://www.nps.gov/jela"	Jean Lafitte NHP & Preserve 
+icepark	d533	"http://www.nps.gov/jeca"	Jewel Cave NM 
+icepark	d534	"http://www.nps.gov/joda"	John Day Fossil Beds NM 
+icepark	d535	"http://www.nps.gov/jomu"	John Muir NHS 
+icepark	d536	"http://www.nps.gov/jofl"	Johnstown Flood N. Mem. 
+icepark	d537	"http://www.nps.gov/jotr"	Joshua Tree NP 
+icepark	d538	"http://www.nps.gov/kala"	Kalaupapa NHS 
+icepark	d539	"http://www.nps.gov/kaho"	Kaloko-Honokohau NHP 
+icepark	d540	"http://www.nps.gov/kefj"	Kenai Fjords NP 
+icepark	d541	"http://www.nps.gov/kemo"	Kennesaw Mountain NBP 
+icepark	d542	"http://www.nps.gov/kimo"	Kings Mountain NMP 
+icepark	d543	"http://www.nps.gov/klgo"	Klondike Gold Rush NHP 
+icepark	d544	"http://www.nps.gov/knri"	Knife River Indian Villages NHS 
+icepark	d545	"http://www.nps.gov/lame"	Lake Mead NRA 
+icepark	d546	"http://www.nps.gov/lavo"	Lassen Volcanic NP 
+icepark	d547	"http://www.nps.gov/labe"	Lava Beds NM 
+icepark	d548	"http://www.nps.gov/libo"	Lincoln Boyhood N. Mem. 
+icepark	d549	"http://www.nps.gov/libi"	Little Bighorn Battlefield NM 
+icepark	d550	"http://www.nps.gov/lyjo"	Lyndon B. Johnson NHP 
+icepark	d551	"http://www.nps.gov/maca"	Mammoth Cave NP 
+icepark	d552	"http://www.nps.gov/meve"	Mesa Verde NP 
+icepark	d553	"http://www.nps.gov/mima"	Minute Man NHP 
+icepark	d554	"http://www.nps.gov/moca"	Montezuma Castle NM 
+icepark	d555	"http://www.nps.gov/mocr"	Moores Creek NB 
+icepark	d556	"http://www.nps.gov/morr"	Morristown NHP 
+icepark	d557	"http://www.nps.gov/moci"	Mound City Group NM 
+icepark	d558	"http://www.nps.gov/mora"	Mount Rainier NP 
+icepark	d559	"http://www.nps.gov/moru"	Mount Rushmore N. Mem. 
+icepark	d560	"http://www.nps.gov/mowo"	Muir Woods NM 
+icepark	d561	"http://www.nps.gov/npsa"	NP of American Samoa 
+icepark	d562	"http://www.nps.gov/natr"	Natchez Trace Parkway 
+icepark	d563	"http://www.nps.gov/nacc"	National Capital Parks - Central 
+icepark	d564	"http://www.nps.gov/nace"	National Capital Region - East 
+icepark	d565	"http://www.nps.gov/nava"	Navajo NM 
+icepark	d566	"http://www.nps.gov/neri"	New River Gorge NR 
+icepark	d567	"http://www.nps.gov/nepe"	Nez Perce NHP 
+icepark	d568	"http://www.nps.gov/noat"	Noatak N. Preserve 
+icepark	d569	"http://www.nps.gov/noca"	North Cascades NP 
+icepark	d570	"http://www.nps.gov/obri"	Obed Wild & Scenic River 
+icepark	d571	"http://www.nps.gov/ocmu"	Ocmulgee NM 
+icepark	d572	"http://www.nps.gov/olym"	Olympic NP 
+icepark	d573	"http://www.nps.gov/orca"	Oregon Caves NM 
+icepark	d574	"http://www.nps.gov/orpi"	Organ Pipe Cactus NM 
+icepark	d575	"http://www.nps.gov/ozar"	Ozark NS Riverways 
+icepark	d576	"http://www.nps.gov/pais"	Padre Island NS 
+icepark	d577	"http://www.nps.gov/peri"	Pea Ridge NMP 
+icepark	d578	"http://www.nps.gov/peco"	Pecos NHP 
+icepark	d579	"http://www.nps.gov/pete"	Petersburg NB 
+icepark	d580	"http://www.nps.gov/pefo"	Petrified Forest NP 
+icepark	d581	"http://www.nps.gov/pinn"	Pinnacles NM 
+icepark	d582	"http://www.nps.gov/pipe"	Pipestone NM 
+icepark	d583	"http://www.nps.gov/pore"	Point Reyes NS 
+icepark	d584	"http://www.nps.gov/prwi"	Prince William Forest Park 
+icepark	d585	"http://www.nps.gov/puho"	Pu'uohonua O Honaunau NHP 
+icepark	d586	"http://www.nps.gov/puhe"	Puukohola Heiau NHS 
+icepark	d587	"http://www.nps.gov/rabr"	Rainbow Bridges NM 
+icepark	d588	"http://www.nps.gov/redw"	Redwood NP 
+icepark	d589	"http://www.nps.gov/rich"	Richmond NBP 
+icepark	d590	"http://www.nps.gov/rocr"	Rock Creek Park 
+icepark	d591	"http://www.nps.gov/romo"	Rocky Mountain NP 
+icepark	d592	"http://www.nps.gov/rova"	Roosevelt Vanderbilt NHS 
+icepark	d593	"http://www.nps.gov/ruca"	Russell Cave NM 
+icepark	d594	"http://www.nps.gov/sagu"	Saguaro NM 
+icepark	d595	"http://www.nps.gov/sacn"	Saint Croix NSR 
+icepark	d596	"http://www.nps.gov/saga"	Saint-Gaudens NHS 
+icepark	d597	"http://www.nps.gov/sapu"	Salinas Pueblo Missions NM 
+icepark	d598	"http://www.nps.gov/saan"	San Antonio Missions NHP 
+icepark	d599	"http://www.nps.gov/sajh"	San Juan Island NHP 
+icepark	d600	"http://www.nps.gov/samo"	Santa Monica Mountains NRA 
+icepark	d601	"http://www.nps.gov/sara"	Saratoga NHP 
+icepark	d602	"http://www.nps.gov/scbl"	Scotts Bluff NM 
+icepark	d603	"http://www.nps.gov/seki"	Sequoia & Kings Canyon NP 
+icepark	d604	"http://www.nps.gov/shen"	Shenandoah NP 
+icepark	d605	"http://www.nps.gov/shil"	Shiloh NMP 
+icepark	d606	"http://www.nps.gov/sitk"	Sitka NHP 
+icepark	d607	"http://www.nps.gov/slbe"	Sleeping Bear Dunes NL 
+icepark	d608	"http://www.nps.gov/stea"	Steamtown NHS 
+icepark	d609	"http://www.nps.gov/stri"	Stones River NB 
+icepark	d610	"http://www.nps.gov/sucr"	Sunset Crater Volcano NM 
+icepark	d611	"http://www.nps.gov/thro"	Theodore Roosevelt NP 
+icepark	d612	"http://www.nps.gov/thst"	Thomas Stone NHS 
+icepark	d613	"http://www.nps.gov/timu"	Timucuan Ecol. & Hist. Preserve 
+icepark	d614	"http://www.nps.gov/tont"	Tonto NM 
+icepark	d615	"http://www.nps.gov/tuzi"	Tuzigoot NM 
+icepark	d616	"http://www.nps.gov/usar"	USS Arizona & Pearl Harbor NHL 
+icepark	d617	"http://www.nps.gov/upde"	Upper Delaware Scenic & Rec. River 
+icepark	d618	"http://www.nps.gov/vafo"	Valley Forge NHP 
+icepark	d619	"http://www.nps.gov/vick"	Vicksburg NMP 
+icepark	d620	"http://www.nps.gov/viis"	Virgin Islands NP 
+icepark	d621	"http://www.nps.gov/voya"	Voyageurs NP 
+icepark	d622	"http://www.nps.gov/waca"	Walnut Canyon NM 
+icepark	d623	"http://www.nps.gov/wapa"	War in Pacific NHP 
+icepark	d624	"http://www.nps.gov/whis"	Whiskey-Shasta-Trinity NRA 
+icepark	d625	"http://www.nps.gov/whsa"	White Sands NM 
+icepark	d626	"http://www.nps.gov/whmi"	Whitman Mission NHS 
+icepark	d627	"http://www.nps.gov/wicr"	Wilson's Creek NB 
+icepark	d628	"http://www.nps.gov/wica"	Wind Cave NP 
+icepark	d629	"http://www.nps.gov/wotr"	Wolf Trap Farm Park 
+icepark	d630	"http://www.nps.gov/wrst"	Wrangell-St. Ellias NP & Preserve 
+icepark	d631	"http://www.nps.gov/wupa"	Wupatki NM 
+icepark	d632	"http://www.nps.gov/yell"	Yellowstone NP 
+icepark	d633	"http://www.nps.gov/yose"	Yosemite NP 
+icepark	d634	"http://www.nps.gov/yuho"	Yucca House NM 
+icepark	d635	"http://www.nps.gov/yuch"	Yukon-Charley Rivers N. Preserve 
+icepark	d636	"http://www.nps.gov/zion"	Zion NP 
+icepark	d637	"http://www.nps.gov/agfo"	Agate Fossil Beds NM 
+icepark	d638	"http://www.nps.gov/buis"	Buck Island Reef NM 
+icepark	d639	"http://www.nps.gov/cebr"	Cedar Breaks NM 
+icepark	d640	"http://www.nps.gov/chis"	Channel Islands NP 
+icepark	d641	"http://www.nps.gov/elma"	El Malpais NM 
+icepark	d642	"http://www.nps.gov/frla"	Frederick Law Olmsted NHS 
+icepark	d643	"http://www.nps.gov/glba"	Glacier Bay NP & Preserve 
+icepark	d644	"http://www.nps.gov/katm"	Katmai NP & Preserve 
+icepark	d645	"http://www.nps.gov/kova"	Kobuk Valley NP 
+icepark	d646	"http://www.nps.gov/lacl"	Lake Clark NP & Preserve 
+icepark	d647	"http://www.nps.gov/lamr"	Lake Meredith NRA 
+icepark	d648	"http://www.nps.gov/mana"	Manassas NBP 
+icepark	d649	"http://www.nps.gov/nabr"	Natural Bridges NM 
+icepark	d650	"http://www.nps.gov/nisi"	Ninety Six NHS 
+icepark	d651	"http://www.nps.gov/piro"	Pictured Rocks NL 
+icepark	d652	"http://www.nps.gov/pisp"	Pipe Spring NM 
+icepark	d653	"http://www.nps.gov/sahi"	Sagamore Hill NHS 
+icepark	d654	"http://www.nps.gov/tica"	Timpanogas Caves NM 
diff --git a/mrs_test/mrs-phirl-naive.py b/mrs_test/mrs-phirl-naive.py
new file mode 100644
index 0000000..bc3526d
--- /dev/null
+++ b/mrs_test/mrs-phirl-naive.py
@@ -0,0 +1,72 @@
+from guineapig import *
+import gpextras
+
+# a non-trivial GineaPig program
+
+import sys
+import math
+import logging
+
+def termWeight(relCount,df): 
+    return math.log(2.0)*math.log(relCount/float(df))
+
+def eachTerm((rel,docid,id,doc)):
+    for term in doc: yield (rel,docid,term)
+
+class Phirl(Planner):
+    
+    #parse the data
+    fields = ReadLines('id-parks.txt') | ReplaceEach(by=lambda line:line.strip().split("\t"))
+
+    data = ReplaceEach(fields, by=lambda(rel,docid,id,str): (rel,docid,id,str.lower().split(" "))) | Flatten(by=eachTerm)
+
+    #compute document frequency
+    docFreq = Group(data, by=lambda(rel,docid,term):(rel,term), reducingTo=ReduceToCount()) \
+     | ReplaceEach(by=lambda((rel,term),df):(rel,term,df))
+
+    #find total number of docs per relation
+    ndoc = ReplaceEach(data, by=lambda(rel,docid,term):(rel,docid)) | Distinct() | Group(by=lambda(rel,docid):rel, reducingTo=ReduceToCount())
+
+    #unweighted document vectors
+    
+    udocvec = Join( Jin(data,by=lambda(rel,docid,term):(rel,term)), Jin(docFreq,by=lambda(rel,term,df):(rel,term)) ) \
+        | ReplaceEach(by=lambda((rel,doc,term),(rel_,term_,df)):(rel,doc,term,df)) \
+        | JoinTo( Jin(ndoc,by=lambda(rel,relCount):rel), by=lambda(rel,doc,term,df):rel ) \
+        | ReplaceEach(by=lambda((rel,doc,term,df),(rel_,relCount)):(rel,doc,term,df,relCount)) \
+        | ReplaceEach(by=lambda(rel,doc,term,df,relCount):(rel,doc,term,termWeight(relCount,df)))
+
+    sumSquareWeights = ReduceTo(float, lambda accum,(rel,doc,term,weight): accum+weight*weight)
+
+    norm = Group( udocvec, by=lambda(rel,doc,term,weight):(rel,doc), reducingTo=sumSquareWeights) \
+        | ReplaceEach( by=lambda((rel,doc),z):(rel,doc,z))
+
+    #normalized document vector
+    docvec = Join( Jin(norm,by=lambda(rel,doc,z):(rel,doc)), Jin(udocvec,by=lambda(rel,doc,term,weight):(rel,doc)) ) \
+        | ReplaceEach( by=lambda((rel,doc,z),(rel_,doc_,term,weight)): (rel,doc,term,weight/math.sqrt(z)) )
+
+    # grab only the p component and reduce it
+    sumOfP = ReduceTo(float,lambda accum,(doc1,doc2,p): accum+p)
+
+    # naive algorithm: use all pairs for finding matches
+    rel1Docs = Filter(docvec, by=lambda(rel,doc,term,weight):rel=='icepark')
+    rel2Docs = Filter(docvec, by=lambda(rel,doc,term,weight):rel=='npspark')
+    softjoin = Join( Jin(rel1Docs,by=lambda(rel,doc,term,weight):term), Jin(rel2Docs,by=lambda(rel,doc,term,weight):term)) \
+        | ReplaceEach(by=lambda((rel1,doc1,term,weight1),(rel2,doc2,term_,weight2)): (doc1,doc2,weight1*weight2)) \
+        | Group(by=lambda(doc1,doc2,p):(doc1,doc2), reducingTo=sumOfP) \
+        | ReplaceEach(by=lambda((doc1,doc2),sim):(doc1,doc2,sim))
+
+    # get the top few similar pairs
+    simpairs = Filter(softjoin, by=lambda(doc1,doc,sim):sim>0.75)
+
+    # diagnostic output
+    look = Join( Jin(simpairs,by=lambda(doc1,doc2,sim):doc1), Jin(fields,by=lambda(rel,doc,id,str):doc) ) \
+        | ReplaceEach(by=lambda((doc1,doc2,sim),(rel,doc1_,id1,str)):(doc1,doc2,id1,str,sim)) \
+        | JoinTo( Jin(fields,by=lambda(rel,doc,id,str):doc), by=lambda(doc1,doc2,id1,str1,sim):doc2) \
+        | ReplaceEach( by=lambda((doc1,doc2,id1,str1,sim),(rel,doc2_,id2,str2)):(doc1,doc2,(1 if id1==id2 else 0),sim,str1,str2) ) \
+        | Format( by=lambda(doc1,doc2,correct,sim,str1,str2):'%5.3f\t%d\t%30s:%s\t%30s:%s' % (sim,correct,str1,doc1,str2,doc2) )
+
+# always end like this
+if __name__ == "__main__":
+    p = Phirl()
+    p.registerCompiler('mrs',gpextras.MRSCompiler)
+    p.main(sys.argv)
diff --git a/mrs_test/mrs-wordcount.py b/mrs_test/mrs-wordcount.py
new file mode 100644
index 0000000..94fd31c
--- /dev/null
+++ b/mrs_test/mrs-wordcount.py
@@ -0,0 +1,20 @@
+from guineapig import *
+import sys
+import gpextras
+
+# supporting routines can go here
+def tokens(line): 
+    for tok in line.split(): 
+        yield tok.lower()
+
+#always subclass Planner
+class WordCount(Planner):
+
+    wc = ReadLines('corpus.txt') | Flatten(by=tokens) | Group(by=lambda x:x, reducingTo=ReduceToCount())
+
+# always end like this
+if __name__ == "__main__":
+    p = WordCount()
+    p.registerCompiler('mrs',gpextras.MRSCompiler)
+    p.main(sys.argv)
+
diff --git a/mrs_test/setup-mrs-direct.bash b/mrs_test/setup-mrs-direct.bash
new file mode 100644
index 0000000..5d7434a
--- /dev/null
+++ b/mrs_test/setup-mrs-direct.bash
@@ -0,0 +1,9 @@
+export GPHOME=`(cd ..;pwd)`
+#so we can import gpextras and guineapig
+export PYTHONPATH=$GPHOME
+export GP_MRS_COMMAND="python $GPHOME/mrs_gp.py"
+
+
+
+
+
diff --git a/mrs_test/setup-mrs-server.bash b/mrs_test/setup-mrs-server.bash
new file mode 100644
index 0000000..6d3f869
--- /dev/null
+++ b/mrs_test/setup-mrs-server.bash
@@ -0,0 +1,7 @@
+export GPHOME=`(cd ..;pwd)`
+#so we can import gpextras and guineapig
+export PYTHONPATH=$GPHOME
+export GP_MRS_COMMAND="python $GPHOME/mrs_gp.py --task"
+rm -f server.log
+python $GPHOME/mrs_gp.py --serve &
+
diff --git a/mrs_test/test/abc.txt b/mrs_test/test/abc.txt
new file mode 100644
index 0000000..d7710c7
--- /dev/null
+++ b/mrs_test/test/abc.txt
@@ -0,0 +1,20 @@
+line01
+line02
+line03
+line04
+line05
+line06
+line07
+line08
+line09
+line10
+line11
+line12
+line13
+line14
+line15
+line16
+line17
+line18
+line19
+line10
diff --git a/tutorial/Makefile b/tutorial/Makefile
index bf57f48..ea167b1 100644
--- a/tutorial/Makefile
+++ b/tutorial/Makefile
@@ -1,6 +1,6 @@
 update:
 	cp ../emr-extras/*-sample.sh
-	cp ../guineapig.py ../mrs_gp.py ../gpextras.py .
+	cp ../guineapig.py .
 
 clean:
 	rm -rf gpig_views