"please open a pattern by double clicking it" means nothing to new users

[dbojan]

Enhancement Summary

Make program easier for new users, so they don't have to search online how to use your program. It should be self-evident and flowing.

Implementation Details / Mockup

I am going to assume you want users to use your program? Yes?

Ok then, lets continue.

"please open a pattern by double clicking it" means nothing to new users. What is "a pattern"? Where is it?

How about this.

Either auto "open pattern" on start, or
Add big red arrow pointing to "song editor" pattern, or
show screenshot part with image pointing to pattern, or
add link "more info" below "please open a pattern by double clicking it", with link to web page or video explaining what "pattern is"

If I have to look up online how to use your product, ui is not very good.

Next, most people want to play some thing on piano, maybe record it...
So below Click here to add pattern to start playing, add something like: to add piano, click on left side on "My samples", "Instruments", select piano.

You might say, oh but read the manual. I did click on Help, about and it opened: https://docs.lmms.io/user-manual/ with Title:
Welcome to LMMS
What's New in LMMS?

I don't care about what is new, I would like to start using your program. So move news to news session, and point user manual, to you know, manual. It says Getting Started on the left, but it is not clickable. Below it is FAQ with text: What is lmms anyway? I know what is LMMS, I donwloaded it and started it.

So as I mentioned if you have manual already, add these two things at the top:
-How to start playing: in "song editor window", on "triple oscilator row", doble click below number 1.
and add an image with arrow pointing where.
Or have the program do it itself on start. (maybe with option: "do not auto click on pattern on start" on window)

-how to add piano roll (view / piano roll)
-how to add piano insturment: to add piano, click on left side on "My samples", "Instruments", select piano.
-how to display piano key names (Edit / Settings, turn on "Enable note labels in piano roll", and it is also in view, I see, good.)
-how to export to wav or mp3...
-how to save song
-various other things people ask you about.

thank you

Please search the issue tracker for existing feature requests before submitting your own.

• I have searched all existing issues and confirmed that this is not a duplicate.

[sqrvrt]

On latest nightly it looks like this:

In addition, if no patterns are present at all, it adds one to the topmost track.

I think this is sufficient to have for now, anything more could be treated as annoyance if done on a regular basis. Even though an built-in visual tutorial would be nice, there are currently more important things being worked on.

[Monospace-V]

Firstly, I would like to thank you for your comments on the user manual. I shall see what can be done to improve upon what you found obstructive. I do apologize in advance for the large response I have written to your detailed enhancement request. I hope it is comprehensive, instructive, and useful.

"please open a pattern by double clicking it" means nothing to new users. What is "a pattern"? Where is it?

I recommend reporting future bugs and request further enhancements by downloading a nightly instead of according to stable. This way, you do not report on things that have already been changed.
You can look at PRs in https://github.com/LMMS/lmms/pulls , and search for features to see if they have been implemented.
You can also search issues to check if there are linked PRs to existing issues.

Add big red arrow pointing to "song editor" pattern, or show screenshot part with image pointing to pattern, or add link "more info" below "please open a pattern by double clicking it", with link to web page or video explaining what "pattern is"

It is not in the nature of our design to add pop-ups or arrows telling the user what to do by default. A "beginner mode" may be more common in other DAWs, but we do not have a tutorial mode and there are no plans to develop one presently.

If I have to look up online how to use your product, ui is not very good.

This is with my personal experience with design:

If a product needs arrow marks, screenshots, and links to be learnt, its UI is not very good either. We hope the interface is self-explanatory, and we hope to make it intuitive by other means. A minute of careful exploration will reveal that the sidebar is the only way to load presets.

Next, most people want to play some thing on piano, maybe record it... So below Click here to add pattern to start playing, add something like: to add piano, click on left side on "My samples", "Instruments", select piano.

We have so far avoided assuming what a user wants or telling them how to do things.
As sqrvrt has said, presently focus is on fixing bugs and adding features.
A text background in the song editor saying "Add instruments or presets from sidebar" is not an altogether bad idea, but it may not be prioritized. A separate issue might be more productive for best results, and I recommend looking at other constructive issues when writing yours.
I mention this separately so you may consider this.

You might say, oh but read the manual. I did click on Help, about and it opened: https://docs.lmms.io/user-manual/ with Title: Welcome to LMMS What's New in LMMS?

I don't care about what is new, I would like to start using your program.

So move news to news session, and point user manual, to you know, manual.

I shall look into the possibility of making "Getting Started" the main section.
Thank you for the suggestion.

It says Getting Started on the left, but it is not clickable.

This is because it is a section header.

You will notice that my mouse pointer turns from a cursor turns into a pointing-hand when I hover over something clickable, indicating that it is clickable. Your mouse should display similar behaviour, unless it is modified.
It is also visually in a different font style from the sections, indicating it is not a section.

I believe it is not possible with the GitBook UI to make the section header clickable and direct to the pages. I shall look into it anyway, just in case I have missed something in the UI.

Below it is FAQ with text: What is lmms anyway? I know what is LMMS, I donwloaded it and started it.

So as I mentioned if you have manual already, add these two things at the top: -How to start playing: in "song editor window", on "triple oscilator row", doble click below number 1. and add an image with arrow pointing where. Or have the program do it itself on start. (maybe with option: "do not auto click on pattern on start" on window)

You are describing the page Your First Song, which already exists. I shall look into linking it from the FAQ. This is a good suggestion.

-how to add piano roll (view / piano roll) -how to add piano insturment: to add piano, click on left side on "My samples", "Instruments", select piano.

A "quick start" is a good suggestion for the manual FAQ. We shall consider it.

-how to display piano key names (Edit / Settings, turn on "Enable note labels in piano roll", and it is also in view, I see, good.)

I'm not certain what you're saying, but this can be added to the FAQ if that is your question. It is asked sometimes.

-how to export to wav or mp3...

Fortunately, all of our users have been able to find and use File > Export so far.

-how to save song

Fortunately, none of our users have asked this question yet.

I hope to add common concerns to the FAQ. It is hard for me to recall everything.

Please search the issue tracker for existing feature requests before submitting your own.

• I have searched all existing issues and confirmed that this is not a duplicate.

-

I was able to start using LMMS intuitively with minimal help from documentation. I understand that this isn't common with most users, and that adults do have increased trouble learning immersively. Comparatively, I've found other DAWs confusing or simply annoying.

This is what I feel, and may not apply to everyone:

It is commonly opined that things like arrows and pop-ups guiding a user are intrusive, and are a bad and unnecessary substitute for intuitive UI in a program. There are some things which are unintuitive, and there are good possibilities for how to guide users unobtrusively to them, primarily with good organization and hierarchy. Instructions shouldn't be required in good UX. I do not claim that our UX is perfect, but I personally feel that simply telling users what to do pulls us further from the ideal. Any development in the direction of a tutorial mode should not interfere with the usage of the program and _SHOULD NOT be an excuse to stop thinking about intuitive organization._

You may wish to look into each component of your suggestion and think them through to separate the aim of your recommendation from the means of achieving it. There must be ways to achieve intuitive usage that don't involve red arrows. I highly recommend discussing with other users their LMMS journeys before considering modifications aimed at beginners to LMMS.
I say this because several of your suggestions have highly reasonable aims behind them, and users would benefit from the aim being fulfilled, means aside.

Thought-out suggestions for modification of the user manual are welcome, but for my convenience I will request you to discuss them in the Discord server. You are also welcome to discuss the program and talk with other users about how they feel, in the server. You may also notice and understand the state of developer discussion and the program.

-

Lastly, LMMS is an open source project.
We have over a thousand bug and enhancement reports, some of which have many valid and invalid suggestions, some clear, some confusing.
Each one of our handful of developers is a whole person who works on LMMS, volunteering their own time and effort to fix bugs, add features, and contribute to the program, because they care about LMMS and use it. They are not being paid for contribution, and don't earn anything from an increased number of users. Most of the developers have a lot of things to do outside of LMMS and choose to contribute anyway. Their contribution is a courtesy, not an obligation.
We appreciate enhancement requests and bug reports that keep these facts in mind.

We welcome PRs, if you are interested in contribution yourself, or want to see a feature available in LMMS. We can help set you up if you want to contribute.

[bratpeki]

Gonna comment as I read.

Make program easier for new users, so they don't have to search online how to use your program. It should be self-evident and flowing.

I find it intuitive so long as you understand fundamental musical concepts. A common example I pose if that we're not here to teach users what an ADSR is; if a user doesn't know why clicking happens in his sample and we tell them to increase the release, and they don't know what release is, that's not on us. That's on the user. This mentality allows us to not make the program a tutorial but an actual usable DAW.

I am going to assume you want users to use your program? Yes?

Sorta... It's a volunteer-led project. We're not a team of professionals, but of passionate individuals looking to hopefully make a usable program. You'll often see this in FOSS project licenses:

... IN NO EVENT UNLESS REQUIRED BY APPLICABLE LAW OR AGREED TO IN WRITING
WILL ANY COPYRIGHT HOLDER, OR ANY OTHER PARTY WHO MAY MODIFY AND/OR
REDISTRIBUTE THE PROGRAM AS PERMITTED ABOVE, BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR DAMAGES...

We, the developers, see a missing feature we want or feel like should be in the software, and add it. I usually only add features I want (ie. I don't use VSTs so I don't go out of my way to test VST stuff). So from my perspective, the software is there primarily for me. Any user that finds it useful is a great side effect! :)

So I don't want people to use the program. I want me to use the program. And forcing people who work on this without pay, in their free time, to just "improve the software" is very rude on your part, IMO. It undermines the tremendous effort already put into the software. But I might be jumping to conclusions, since I haven't read the whole thing yet.

"please open a pattern by double clicking it" means nothing to new users. What is "a pattern"? Where is it?

A pattern is a common english word implying something that repeats. A clip is a short item containing some information. We can't teach people basic english. This again goes back to some necessary knowledge being required in order to handle LMMS, this being musical concepts, common GUI conventions, etc.

Also:

Again, it's a community project. The developers making the program aren't the whole. You ask the community as well as the developers. Lots of tutorials that are 10 minutes long walk you through the whole process.

Additionally, while it's nice for a software to be intuitive, some stuff can't be directly intuitive unless you spend time in the software and play around with it. For example, someone using SFXR will see the "Mutate" button. We can't make that intuitive. Click it and see what it does. Or ask the community.

Either auto "open pattern" on start,

This one pains me. If there's two patterns, which one to open? The last one? Why? Maybe you made it, finished it, saved the project and closed LMMS. Now you come back the the pattern you finished is all up in your face for no apparent reason.

If I have to look up online how to use your product, ui is not very good.

You don't have to look up how to use it. You can just click on the pattern and notice one click moves stuff around. Then you double-click and see the pattern is now open.

But let's assume that's too difficult. You mention a big red arrow on the pattern. But I opened the project to change something in the notes for future reference. But this big red arrow is in my way. So what do we point to? Unless you have a device that reads minds. ;)

If you don't understand the software, RTFM. It's normal to struggle with something you're using for the first time. What's not normal is degrading the software so it's idiot-proof, since after a while the user is not an idiot and now all the idiot features are bothering him. If I put you in a cockpit with no manual, would you know how to fly a plane? You'd probably like a tutorial (or in the case of a plane, probably a dozen of them!)

You might say, oh but read the manual. I did click on Help, about and it opened: https://docs.lmms.io/user-manual/ with Title:
Welcome to LMMS
What's New in LMMS?

Okay, but, like... Did you read the rest of the page? Or you entertaining the idea of the big red arrow pointing to exactly what you're thinking of again?

So as I mentioned if you have manual already, add these two things at the top:

Is this suggesting manual improvements? If so, @Monospace-V is the right person to consult and I think we're always looking for people to help with the manual, so that's more than welcome AFAIC!

[musikBear]

Make program easier for new users, so they don't have to search online how to use your program. It should be self-evident and flowing.

Absolutely! But a DAW is actually a big and complex program. With that i mean nothing that anyone should expect to work like MS-paint. I believe that most users get to know LMMS from a youTube-video, either one that we have made or one that has been made by a user that like to share his experiences.
The next thing i believe happens is that the aspiring user search youTube for something like "Getting started with LMMS" or maybe "fist project in LMMS".
The quality of that video may very well be what determine if the user download LMMS or not.
Or said in a different way: Manuals are not the first place a new user get acquainted with a new program!
I have assisted users for years, and most never opened our manual, they use video instead.
And ..
The manual has a video-section : )
I feel that what you are asking for is an actual tutorial-mode, that would be great, but there are not dev-muscles enough to implement that, and having tutorial-mode as default production mode would be infuriating annoying for everyone that knows the program already! We once had something known as "What is this". They were extended tooltips that instructed new users how to use a feature. We do not have those anymore, though. Maybe we should think about that again, but implemented differently.
Finally, if you do need a base-tutorial i recommend Rookie-guide: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcUCFfQ3wn8